The psychology of 'junk' cameras.

Keith said:
I like the D700 but I don't cherish it if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

No, I don't know what you mean, Keith.
I would be *thrilled* to have a D700.
Why don't you sell yours to me? you're getting an X100 anyways, no? 😀

Also, I almost always like the pictures from my Leica M4-P. Oh wait... that *is* a junk camera according to some Leica-philes. 🙄
 
shadowfox said:
No, I don't know what you mean, Keith.
I would be *thrilled* to have a D700.
Why don't you sell yours to me? you're getting an X100 anyways, no? 😀

Also, I almost always like the pictures from my Leica M4-P. Oh wait... that *is* a junk camera according to some Leica-philes. 🙄
Click to expand...

All right, my M4-P (my first new Leica) is the worst Leica I've ever owned, and put me off getting another new Leica for 30 years. But even the worst Leica I've ever used is better than most of the rest of the cameras I've ever used.

Cheers,

R.
 
I wonder... Can I get away with just saying that I like junk cameras, without actually justifying it? No, probably not. Bother. OK, maybe it's just that I'm not up to much as a photographer, so I can afford to have fun playing with my Box Brownies? No? OK, I'm just a masochist...

Adrian
 
Surely in a way its just an extreme form of the thing that drives most of us to enjoy using Leica Ms and so forth. The joy of getting lovely results from something that old and unusual. I have not really gotten into what I would regard as junk cameras but have enjoyed using cameras like the old Retina rangefinders which are old but beautifully made. I have also done a lot of photography with the old pre Spotmatic Pentax cameras and lenses. All a part of the same syndrome I think although I would never call these junk.

PS for those of you who are into this, try the following forum where a group of (mainly European?) enthusiasts discuss various manual focus lenses and cameras. It can be a mine of info. about some classic lenses and cameras that many would regard as junk - or verging on junk. (Old Eastern European lenses for example)
The emphasis has often been on European kit of the 50s and 60s although in more recent years there has also more talk about Japanese lenses (I guess these are more accessible to them now that eBay is available). This group certainly seems to enjoy finding cheap generic lenses from makers like Vivitar Tamron and Soligar that perform well. I would have to say these are hard core users who are constantly collecting and comparing.

http://forum.mflenses.com/manual-focus-lenses-f3.html

Here is the forum portal page

http://forum.mflenses.com/
 
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Some of my favorite shots have been taken with the cheapest cameras. Canonet, Yashica 124G ect. I think I am under less preasure to nail that winning keeper that way. I am more relaxed and don't expect much.
 
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I don't think it's sensible to think that that your pics from a junker are actually 'better' because that's always for others to judge ... but it seems that I'm not alone in the amount of pleasure a good output from someone else's potential throw away can be when you're feeling a little creatively jaded!

I feel that Miroslav Tichy took the theory to it's ultimate conclusion. 😀


camera_big.jpg
 
Here's a thought, Keith. Maybe what you are using the D700 for is something that you would not neccessarily do on your own, such as the photos you are getting paid for. Therefore, there is less creativity involved due to the constrained requirements of the photos, and using the automatic features of the camera. You eliminate most of the thought process we all go through when taking photographs, put your brain in neutral, and coast through the shoot.

I think that sometimes, you just have to forget what camera you have in your hands, and realize it is what you see in your mind that is captured on whatever medium you are using. Some days, that vision is not going to be clear. Other times, you may go into overload. We all experience the highs and lows of our hobby/profession/passion. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

PF
 
Most of the pictures I take these days could be taken with any old camera and often are. But these days any old camera is quite a sophisticated package.

With the old classics I have to stop and think, find somewhere to put the lenses down whilst I unscrew one, and so on and I get time to think and, perhaps, have second thoughts. Then I have to decide on exposure and so on; so more input and, I wonder, more of me in it. And the old ones show DoF on the barrel and so on and I have to think about a lot more things. Although the settings are far easier to make than on the electronic marvel: no menus for a start.

Just my 2d worth.

Regards, David
 
It's the other way around for me. I get more keepers with my M4 than with any other camera. And every photo on the single roll I shot while I had a Mamiya 7 was a keeper. With my Kodak Retinette 1A I haven't gotten many decent shots, and the same goes for my Kodak Flash Bantam. My Zeiss Contaflex has given me many keepers too.
 
As I moved from video to photography, I first bought an M8. I had saved good money and this was what was going to set me apart from the rest (of the Canon and Nikon shooters). I put an expensive summicron on it.
I didn't dare to do anything with it, and only brought it out of the house on "photography days". I realized that for the price I used it too little, and sold it to get a GH1, to use with my summicron. I was exited to be able to shoot video with a summicron, took some nice travel pics, but left it at home most of the time. It still had an expensive lens.
Keeping my Gh1 for video, I bought an Minolta CLE to start shooting film. I shot some, using the cron, and it was pretty good, still it was an expensive lens and I was very careful with it. At some point I managed to get a 40mm Rokkor with fungus in it for cheap. I found the picture quality about the same as the cron, but more importantly, I was not afraid anymore to bring the camera all the time, and I did carry it around more often. At this point I think I really started learning and enjoying photography. I got an even cheaper 90 mm rokkor with fungus, and later a 1.4 voightlander 40mm nokton, with fungus for cheap.
I sold my Summicron, and Gh1, and bought a Canon Rebel because I was starting to use a Canon 7D for work and I wanted to practice. So I bought the cheapest one that still shoots video. I bought a super quality 100mm macro L lens. I almost never use this Canon set though.
Then I got a Bessa R3a as my second body. It was half the price of the CLE, but I liked it even better.
Almost always when I sold one of my cameras, I could buy a new one and have money left. All from that M8 plus Cron!

The more I shoot, and the more I learn, the cheaper the gear I purchase becomes. Or is it the other way around?

I recently got an GRD III point and shoot. It's aways in my pocket. I love it.

The other day a friend gave me a "junk" camera tha she thought was too old and broken. A Praktica SLR, from the 60s I think. No working meter, nothing. I put in a role of BW film, and I really liked the results! And the thing is indestructible!

BTW, I bought some charcoal last week, it's only a few bucks...
 
My story with the M6 is similar. Expensive (relatively) camera, pricey summacron lenses. It wasn't the sort of camera I could just toss into my bag everyday to bump through the world with me. I worried about it all the time. An M8 or M9 would only have made matters worse. Now my OM-1n, that's in my bag with its 50/1.8 lens every day. And because it's the camera that's with me, it's the one that seems to get the best shots.

The same things happens in questionable neighborhoods when travelling. I worry about bringing my Leica out of the bag, as it might attract thieves. My Yashica GSN, on the other hand, barely attracts a glance. Since it's the one in my hand, it ends up taking the better pictures.

I like the "junk" cameras, and I'm more creative with them because I'm less self-conscious, less worried about the tool, and the tools have fewer choices for me to make. Shutter speed, f-stop, focus, click. That's a "junk" camera for you.
 
zwarte_kat said:
As I moved from video to photography, I first bought an M8. I had saved good money and this was what was going to set me apart from the rest (of the Canon and Nikon shooters). I put an expensive summicron on it.

I didn't dare to do anything with it, and only brought it out of the house on "photography days".
Click to expand...

Why would you be afraid to use it? These are durable cameras.
 
Cameras you're afraid to use are bad value, unless you can make a profit on them. The only IIIg I ever bought was mint, boxed, case, guarantee, the lot -- at a third of the then value, from an ad in the local paper! I used it once; realized I was afraid of marking it; and swapped it for something equally valuable; brand new; but not 'collectible'. I forget whether it was my M4-P or 90 Summicron.

I wasn't afraid to use my BP M3 (bought at a very good price from a dealer) but as it was only an M3 (no 35mm frames)I soon swapped it for something more usable.

But if I buy a new camera or lens to use, be it M4-P, M9, 75 Summicron, whatever, then I damn' well use it. It would be foolish to do otherwise -- just as it would be foolish to buy any camera I can't afford; have no real use for; and can't turn a profit from ('profit' including using it, hence the M9).

Cheers,

R.
 
A lot of my favourite shots are/were grab shots. So are taken with any old camera I've got with me: I seldom take the M2 when walking the dog, for the same reason that I wear an old ex-army jacket. (There's nothing like a wet muddy dog to decide things for you. Throw in some rain and a few of those brambles that grab anything within a yard and you'll see why the choice is limited.)

Also, and I guess we all do, I tend to value cameras at what I paid for them and their availability; that's completely wrong of course, but there we are. And I have got some lovely shots from the XA1.

Regards, David
 
David, this triggers an unraveling of the story behind my junker, an Ansco 'Super' Speedex, aka Agfa Isolette.

I had seen a couple of very good pictures from these cameras and realized how small they are - the only 120 I found that will fit in my back pocket. Neat. I could work around the scale focus, etc. It would be my strolling camera. I bought one for $15 with a bad bellows and very nice lens, cleaned the shutter and replaced the bellows (tripling the camera's cost). The D90 absolutely smokes it in sharpness, but I like the way it's images come out. The 6x6 tonality is there and shows that it is more important to the image.

I used it this morning, walking the dog in the fog. It's the right camera for the purpose - a big, black plastic mass of circuits and menus would do no better, and would be a bother to carry. It really is the right camera for the job.

- Charlie
 
My junker travels with me in the car. A Nikon FG with the old 43-86mm zoom. Not the newer AI zoom, but the original, which has been factory Ai'd. To emphasize its junker quality, I put a half case reinforced with tape on it:
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shadowfox said:
... I almost always like the pictures from my Leica M4-P. Oh wait... that *is* a junk camera according to some Leica-philes. 🙄
Click to expand...

I was told the M4-P was the *best* Leica by a noted Leica-phile, as long as one used a 35mm lens with it. "Match made in heaven" was the phrase used, I believe.
 
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