NickTrop
Veteran
The quest for the true "poor man's Leica" leads to the Zorki 4K + good condition Summar 2/50.
I always thought a Leica was out of my price-range. So, like many on this site, over time I purchased several fixed lens Japanese rangefinders - Lynx 14e, GSN, Konica S3, and the Yashica Electro CC. These are all wonderful cameras which I'm sure have been called "the poor man's Leica" - only they're not.
Reason?
They all have fine glass. But it's not Leica glass. While I have been guilty of busting on Leicaphiles, it's true, Leica lenses have a unique and pleasing signature all their own. None of these fine Japanese rangefinders have "Leica" lenses, so they're not "poor man's Leicas..." though they are fine cameras, love and shoot them all.
So, in order to create the "poor man's Leica" one must first start with Leica glass. I wrote off all Leica glass - ltm or M as too expensive. However, there is one lens, imo, that is very affordable that definitely has the Leica look - in *****s. IMO that's the Summar. Enter "Summar" into Flickr tag search, you'll see what I mean.
So I bought one with the funds I recently received from selling off a few MF lenses. I waited for one in VG condition from a reputable seller - Cost with shipping $88. It arrived yesterday. No scratches on the glass, little if any hazing. Barrel functional but a bit scratched. Who cares?
Next, did some homework on FSU 35mm RFs. Decided on the Zorki 4K. Winder, removable back, slow speeds, tops at 1/1000, flash synch. $15 for the camera (body only), $18 to ship from the Ukraine. The camera hasn't arrived yet.
$88+$33= $121
In conclusion, if you're on the true quest for a "poor man's Leica" your quest must start with a Leica lens. The Summar would seem to qualify:
From "Leica Lens Reviews":
2/50 Summar:
The Summar is Leitz's first f 2.0 lens, introduced in 1933. It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
From Cameraquest:
50/2 Leitz Summar (1933-1940): Universally disparaged, I think it's a treasure. These lenses give a wonderful semi-soft focus effect when shot at wide apertures with color film. Very beautiful, great for scenics, women, nudes, romantic images.
Check out any images posted on the web and that this lens is a true "Leica" (perhaps "too" Leica) can not be denied. I really love the images it produced based on the samples on Flickr and other sites. Next, so's not to short-change it, a proper body - all shutter speeds (even if they might be off a bit) is a must. Trigger winder, yes, a must for me in 35. Flash synch - even if it's slow, yes. Something other than the what seem to be a pain in the azz bottom loaders... all roads lead to the Zorki 4k.
So, we'll see if my "theory" holds true once the Zorki arrives in a few weeks and I slap that bebe on her and go "all the way" (take pics), instead of just "fondling" her (the Summar) for now. $88 for the lens + $32 for the camera = po' man's Leica.
Next to locate a proper lens hood.
I always thought a Leica was out of my price-range. So, like many on this site, over time I purchased several fixed lens Japanese rangefinders - Lynx 14e, GSN, Konica S3, and the Yashica Electro CC. These are all wonderful cameras which I'm sure have been called "the poor man's Leica" - only they're not.
Reason?
They all have fine glass. But it's not Leica glass. While I have been guilty of busting on Leicaphiles, it's true, Leica lenses have a unique and pleasing signature all their own. None of these fine Japanese rangefinders have "Leica" lenses, so they're not "poor man's Leicas..." though they are fine cameras, love and shoot them all.
So, in order to create the "poor man's Leica" one must first start with Leica glass. I wrote off all Leica glass - ltm or M as too expensive. However, there is one lens, imo, that is very affordable that definitely has the Leica look - in *****s. IMO that's the Summar. Enter "Summar" into Flickr tag search, you'll see what I mean.
So I bought one with the funds I recently received from selling off a few MF lenses. I waited for one in VG condition from a reputable seller - Cost with shipping $88. It arrived yesterday. No scratches on the glass, little if any hazing. Barrel functional but a bit scratched. Who cares?
Next, did some homework on FSU 35mm RFs. Decided on the Zorki 4K. Winder, removable back, slow speeds, tops at 1/1000, flash synch. $15 for the camera (body only), $18 to ship from the Ukraine. The camera hasn't arrived yet.
$88+$33= $121
In conclusion, if you're on the true quest for a "poor man's Leica" your quest must start with a Leica lens. The Summar would seem to qualify:
From "Leica Lens Reviews":
2/50 Summar:
The Summar is Leitz's first f 2.0 lens, introduced in 1933. It shows it's best results between f 3.2 and 6.3. In this range, it is comparably sharp, like my Kodak Retina Ia 3.5/50 mm Xenar from the 50ies. In this range, it is a "high contrast lens", but different than we use the phrase today. Here it means, that the lens shows clear colors but hardly shadow details. To give an example: When you look at a tree at dawn or sunset, you clearly see the colors of the bright parts, but the shadows are gone and almost black. That's what the lens does, even in bright daylight. Additionally, the unsharp areas are more unsharp than in a "usual" 50 mm, almost like from the 2/90 mm M Summicron. Both effects (suppression of shadow details and "increased" unsharpness) result in the most impressive 3D or pictoral effect I've ever seen from a 50 mm, incl Noctilux. The highlights are over-pronounced, which gives an additional impression of light in your pictures (like in impressionism). At f 2.0 the corners tend to be dark and the colors are almost gone. It is a warm to neutral lens.
http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/ll.htm
From Cameraquest:
50/2 Leitz Summar (1933-1940): Universally disparaged, I think it's a treasure. These lenses give a wonderful semi-soft focus effect when shot at wide apertures with color film. Very beautiful, great for scenics, women, nudes, romantic images.
Check out any images posted on the web and that this lens is a true "Leica" (perhaps "too" Leica) can not be denied. I really love the images it produced based on the samples on Flickr and other sites. Next, so's not to short-change it, a proper body - all shutter speeds (even if they might be off a bit) is a must. Trigger winder, yes, a must for me in 35. Flash synch - even if it's slow, yes. Something other than the what seem to be a pain in the azz bottom loaders... all roads lead to the Zorki 4k.
So, we'll see if my "theory" holds true once the Zorki arrives in a few weeks and I slap that bebe on her and go "all the way" (take pics), instead of just "fondling" her (the Summar) for now. $88 for the lens + $32 for the camera = po' man's Leica.
Next to locate a proper lens hood.
Last edited:
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I heard this being the Canonet GIII, before prices broke the $40 mark again a few years ago.
But a Zorki 1 with an Industar 61 may fit the "label". That lens takes some nice images.
But a Zorki 1 with an Industar 61 may fit the "label". That lens takes some nice images.
gb hill
Veteran
Maybe it should be more catorigized like this:
Zorki & FED is poor mans Barnack Pre 1950s
Canonnet poor mans Leica 60s to 1999
Bessas poor mans Leica year 2000 to present.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to correct any dates for I'm not a collector and by looking at my arsenal of cameras listed in my profile, I'm defiently considered a poor man.
Zorki & FED is poor mans Barnack Pre 1950s
Canonnet poor mans Leica 60s to 1999
Bessas poor mans Leica year 2000 to present.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to correct any dates for I'm not a collector and by looking at my arsenal of cameras listed in my profile, I'm defiently considered a poor man.
raid
Dad Photographer
I recommend for a "Poor Man's Leica" outift to get an Elmar 50mm/3.5 or Summar 50mm/2.0 and a Zorkiof FED. Your Summar is unusually inexpensive. It took me six months to find a Summar for around $130.
If you can accept a non-Leitz lens, then my choice would be a Konica S2. The lens is super sharp, and manual exposure control is possible. The camera is built like a rock.
Raid
If you can accept a non-Leitz lens, then my choice would be a Konica S2. The lens is super sharp, and manual exposure control is possible. The camera is built like a rock.
Raid
NickTrop
Veteran
raid said:
Yep. What I did.
raid said:
Dunno. Got lucky I guess. It was $78 + $10 shipping.
gb hill
Veteran
Oh! you added to your thread. Now I see. Nick you got a heck of a deal. Less than what I payed for my elmar 50/3.5 to go with my zorki 2c. Way to go.
raid
Dad Photographer
NickTrop said:
Nick,
My first Summar was pristine optically, and it was stolen from my office, with a Zorki. Now I got my second Summar, and I will tomorrow pick up two developed and scanned rolls of film with it. I did well with the first Summar. Let's wait and see how the second Summar did.
Good luck with your set.
Raid
Thardy
Veteran
Where do you find Zorkis?
NickTrop
Veteran
Thardy said:
eBay, there were a few. While I know the Jupiters and the Industars are fine lenses, I wanted to dedicate this to the Summar. Actually, buying just the body was less than I expected - $15, cost more to ship ($18).
NickTrop
Veteran
gb hill said:
Thank you! The power of "sniping", plus some luck, I suppose. (Don't throw rocks. I snipe. It makes no sense whatsoever to bid early on eBay. You just run up the prices.)
NickTrop
Veteran
raid said:
That's why I keep the Yashica GSN in my office as my "office camera". Plus, in my job I'm the designated photographer and I like the Yash but no loss in a $$$ sense if it's stolen. I leave it out in the open on my desk.
This piece of kit, however, will not be in the office.
palec
Well-known
Summar is indeed wonderful lens, sometimes I miss the sharpness, but it definitely has soul.
"
"
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I hope the 15 dollar Zorki 4k is in good nick and not another russian roulette buy.
murrayatuptown
Established
Sorry to derail the focus of this thread, but I'm curious what descriptive terms people would use for the Argus C3 50 mm lens.
Your descriptions here are interesting in that they are more 'emotional' than the descriptions I read about the Argus (i.e., 'surprisingly good performer within it's limitations...that's cold & analytical and gives of no sense ofhow people really feel about it...maybe no opinion :O) ).
Thanks
Murray
Your descriptions here are interesting in that they are more 'emotional' than the descriptions I read about the Argus (i.e., 'surprisingly good performer within it's limitations...that's cold & analytical and gives of no sense ofhow people really feel about it...maybe no opinion :O) ).
Thanks
Murray
NickTrop
Veteran
palec said:Summar is indeed wonderful lens, sometimes I miss the sharpness, but it definitely has soul.
"
Cool shot! Actually, if you scan you can cheat it and add a little sharpness, post. I wouldn't mess with contrast levels, though.
NickTrop
Veteran
murrayatuptown said:
Check out some pics of the Summar on Flickr. I haven't shot with it yet, but there's something about the look of that lens I like and even in scans it is pretty distinctive. I actually like the color stuff better than the b&w. Hard to judge it by "MTF"-type talk and adjectives like "sharpness" and "contrasty". One is perhaps only left with "emotional" terms.
palec
Well-known
NickTrop said:
This shot was overexposed and film pushed, the contrast is mostly natural.
Anyway, Summar looks interesting in colour, too. It's a bit saturated and blurred, dreamlike.
raid
Dad Photographer
Here are a few color photos that I took with the Summar before it got stolen.
Raid
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=606483
Raid
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=606483
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
I've never owned or even held a 4K, so I can't make a judgement there. I just never had the urge, even for $15. I do like the Gabriel & gb hill suggestion to take a look at a Zorki.1.
Except they fit none of Nick's criteria - no lever winder, removable back, slow speeds, 1/1000, or flash synch. (Of course, my Leica.IIIs have slow speeds, but none of the other qualities either. ) And it's likely, even with much patience and diligence, you'd end up looking high and low to find a Zorki.1 for even 4 or 5 times Nick's 4K money. So a Zorki.1 Po.Man would have to change criteria and add some dollars to the pot.
But if it's a Po.Man's.Barnack you're after, the Zorki.1 is just pretty darn close in size and feel... IMHO. Again, I've never even played with a 4K, so I can't compare, but I also very much like the quality build of the Zorki.1. Mine works quite nicely and feels tough as a tank.
I'm with ya 100% though Nick on the Summar choice. I've mostly been shooting 35 & 28mm lately, but my Summar is the one 50 I carry along.
Except they fit none of Nick's criteria - no lever winder, removable back, slow speeds, 1/1000, or flash synch. (Of course, my Leica.IIIs have slow speeds, but none of the other qualities either.
) And it's likely, even with much patience and diligence, you'd end up looking high and low to find a Zorki.1 for even 4 or 5 times Nick's 4K money. So a Zorki.1 Po.Man would have to change criteria and add some dollars to the pot.But if it's a Po.Man's.Barnack you're after, the Zorki.1 is just pretty darn close in size and feel... IMHO. Again, I've never even played with a 4K, so I can't compare, but I also very much like the quality build of the Zorki.1. Mine works quite nicely and feels tough as a tank.
I'm with ya 100% though Nick on the Summar choice. I've mostly been shooting 35 & 28mm lately, but my Summar is the one 50 I carry along.
NickTrop
Veteran
raid said:
Raid - I think these pictures are absolutely stunning. Great shots.