The Red dot relationship with Panasonic

[paragon]

Just a thought on a cold "English" day

With the improvements that will come with the Micro 43 systems, will the Japanese Mfrs do what Leica cannot and produce a really good "Rangefinder" digital body for under £1,000, (US$1,600), at UK prices..........thereby marginalising Leica further

Leica have shown their special marketing skills by pricing the Dlux4 well ahead of the LX3, (almost 2 x - if you compare like for like)........and many internet comparisons between the two only highlight that you are paying £200 for a red dot

How much do Leica contribute to the relationship, and will Panasonic continue to value their "red dot" partner

as i said.......just a thought from someone who is thinking about buying a G1 so that he can use his MF rangefinder lenses on a digital "rangefinder" body............and realising that he will never be able to justify the price of a new Leica M digital body which seem to increase in price annually by double digit "inflation"

(and also from someone who is looking to upgrade his P&S from an A640 Powershot to a LX3 or Dlux4 and refusing to be "mugged" by the price of the Dlux)

But maybe a red dot does work magic?

 

[Paul T.]

It would be good if Leica learned more from Panasonic... for instance, the X-1 might be a better camera if the autofocus was on a par with the GF1.

Wha'ts impressive about Panasonic is how their 17mm lens seems to outperform the Polympis 25mm, when Olympus have, like Leica, an established tradition in lens design. So maybe Panasonic simply don't need Leica any more?

 

[majid]

The market for rangefinders is too marginal for the major Japanese manufacturers, including Panasonic and Olympus. Only Cosina could build one, and so far, they've stated they do not intend to produce digital cameras.

Leica is actually moving away from simply rebranding other people's cameras with new models like the S2 and X1. As for the D-Lux 4, it sold quite well, simply because the LX3 was for a long time impossible to find for love or money. In any case, the Panasonic alliance seems to have dissolved, and Panasonic is justifiably proud of its own optics like the excellent 20mm f/1.7.

You can argue whether Leicas are worth the money. They will never be as cheap as Japanese digicams due to a lack of economies of scale, and manufacturing in high-cost locales. There's no question they are coming back with interesting new products after a near death experience not so long ago.

 

[Fujitsu]

How much do Leica contribute to the relationship, and will Panasonic continue to value their "red dot" partner

It looks like the partnership has ended. There is no "Leica" print on the new consumer Lumix models either.

Personally I may buy a G1 or whatever it´s called at some point in time to play with. But anything serious I proudly capture on film. 😛

 

[wgerrard]

Just a thought on a cold "English" day

With the improvements that will come with the Micro 43 systems, will the Japanese Mfrs do what Leica cannot and produce a really good "Rangefinder" digital body for under £1,000, (US$1,600), at UK prices..........thereby marginalising Leica further

Yes, if the current crop of M4/3's are a financial success. Of course, it won't be an actual rangefinder, as your quotes suggest. And it probably won't take old M-mount lenses without demanding a few compromises. And people will argue that the lenses can't be as good as Leica's because they don't cost as much. And, it will probably be a pain to use in manual mode. And, no, it won't have an optical viewfinder.

But, yes, if you are waiting for an M4/3 that can convince you to buy it, you'll get it. I'll buy one, too.

Oh... will it have any impact on Leica sales? No.

 

[photogdave]

I don't think the partnership is over. The Leica-branded 45mm macro lens for M 4/3 has only been shipping for a short while. Panasonic has always had lower end compacts that did not have the Leica name on the lens. So far they have not announced any replacements for their higher end models that have traditionally had "Leica" lenses.

 

[RayPA]

How much do Leica contribute to the relationship, and will Panasonic continue to value their "red dot" partner

as i said.......just a thought from someone who is thinking about buying a G1 so that he can use his MF rangefinder lenses on a digital "rangefinder" body............and realising that he will never be able to justify the price of a new Leica M digital body which seem to increase in price annually by double digit "inflation"

But maybe a red dot does work magic?

I don't know how much Leica contributes (sales/technology-wise) to that relationship, but the name alone carries considerable value amongst the casual camera user. The Leica stamp on the lens is still a selling point and each digi manufacturer seems to have their alliance with some "quality" lens-maker. I haven't browsed the electronics section at my local Best Buy or Target lately, but IIRC, the last time I looked at the "Features" tag for video and P&S cameras listed as one of the top three bullets was usually something like "High-Quality [insert lens manufacturer here] Lens".

I have a G1 and I think it's still the best value going right now for m4/3 cameras. However, if you wait long enough, your m4/3 model will eventually arrive.


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[Wiyum]

I'll certainly be curious to see if Leica's branding disappears from Panasonic's prosumer video cameras, where I always found it to be a curious inclusion anyway.

But as far as still cameras and lenses are concerned, I think there's a strong argument to be made that Panasonic no longer needs Leica. Certainly, when considering a GF-1 kit, I'm very inclined towards the Panasonic 20mm, 14-45mm, and upcoming 14mm lenses. I have no interest in the Leica 45mm, mostly due to its size and cost. Panasonic seems to have hit upon a real sweet spot with good optics, small size, and low cost, incorporating in-camera software into the design process of the lens. Purists will surely balk, and I hear the argument. But from where I'm standing, the end result is what matters, and Panasonic, on their own, have really found a great middle ground. A smaller, cheaper, Leica-free 45mm prime would be much more attractive to me personally.

 

[JoeV]

Ditto. In fact, I'd go further and state that the software correction of lens design in-camera will eventually kill Leica (and perhaps Zeiss), who's legacy products are a reputation of exquisitely crafted optics. The new paradigm will put the nail in the coffin of optical-only lens correction, and any business model predicated upon this old principle is doomed.

~Joe