The right Film SLR next to Leica M6ttl. R6 or FM2/FM3a

[Rob-F]

Hi guys,

I am looking for mechanical SLR to use next to my Leica M film bodies. Sometimes in the same bag and same projects. So i thought about Leica R glass.

Had a Eos3 quit on me cause of empty battery. No pics whatsoever. So Mechanical shutter is what i want.

Thinking about the R6(.2) with a 60mm and 28mm.

However i just handled a R3 and R4 yesterday and the R4 had much more shutter lag. Reading about it i come across some mentioning about shutter lag on the R6(.2) also..

If the R6 would have the shutter lag of the r4 I experienced i would not want to buy it. Not sure if the specific camera needed a cla.

Can any of the users confirm the R6 shutter is nice and responsive and can compare with the M system or is it there a real lag to be expected (even if CLAed recently) with the R6(.2)??

Or should i look for F3/fm3a and have the R-glass converted. And njoy also some other Nikon lens gems out there)


So what in your perspective would be the best choice if i want to have a solid and responsive SLR solution next to and comparable to the M6ttl and M5 or already have and Njoy.

I've had an R4, R5, and R6. They all had shutter lag. Even DAG wasn't able to improve the R5 and R6 by much. Where my FE2s and my FM3a respond with a quick "clickel" sound, the Leica SLRs were more like, "kerplop." I didn't like the R4 and R5 exposure display, either. I liked the R6 display, which is just like the M6, much better.

 

[x-ray]

Here's my logic based on many decades of using both Leica and Nikon professionally.

You're going to spend double or more for an R6.2 body vs a very clean FM2. I've never used or even held an an R6.2 so I have no comment about function. The FM2 is excellent, very reliable and quite small and light. I have an FM and FE which are similar. Repairs on thecFM2 will be easy to get and very reasonable. Parts are no issue for the FM2. I believe Nikon still will repair them.

I owned the V1 28 Elmarit and assume you're looking at the V2. Ive read it's a great lens but no first hand experience. The V1 I owned was just average. It didn't impress me. To buy an average V2 you'll pay about $1900 which is pretty nuts imo. For the same money you can buy possibly the finest 28mm ever made, the Nikkor 38mm f1.4 AF D. It's a truly amazing lens even at 1.4 and 2 full stops faster than the Elmarit. No contest here IMO.

I owned both the 60mm R and the Nikkor 60mm AF D. The Nikkor is easily the equal of the Leica 60 and will run you about 1/3 the price of the R glass.

As far as SL bodies, I bougt 2 SL's and an SL MOT and shot them professionally in the days when they were still in production. I didn't abuse them but did use them heavily. I wound up with a lot of problems with shutters and meters. I'd say I wasn't impressed so I sold them and went back to my M's and Nikons. In addition to mechanical and meter problems I found I had focusing problems and disliked the very fine texture focusing screen and microprism. I also hated the thick and bulky feel and the single stroke only film advance. I prefer a multi stroke wratcheted advance.

If you don't want to go the 28 1.4? The Nikkor 28mm f2.8 AIs is exceptional by any standard.

Without a doubt I'd pick either Nikon body or as mentioned F2 and the Nikkor Glass. I use the 28 AIs f2.8 and 50 f3.5 micro. Both are tremendous performers and I use them on my F, F2, FM and FE bodies.

Advice I give as a professional ton enthusiasts, look at what pros use and there's a reasonwe use a given brand. We don't pick our equipment on what is cool or what makes us look or feel cool. We buy based on performance, reliability and support from the manufacturer. Leicaflex or R equipment was never widely used in the pro world.

 

[skucera]

I'll second the recommendation for the Nikon F2. I was given one with a bad light meter, and it takes beautiful pictures using my iPhone as a light meter. I've got to look into fixing that Photonic light meter.

Scott

 

[Pioneer]

@x-ray - Advice I give as a professional ton enthusiasts, look at what pros use and there's a reasonwe use a given brand. We don't pick our equipment on what is cool or what makes us look or feel cool. We buy based on performance, reliability and support from the manufacturer. Leicaflex or R equipment was never widely used in the pro world.

I agree wholeheartedly about Canon and Nikon support for pro photographers. If you are a pro then I recommend you go with the manufacturer who will support you.

But...I think x-ray may be trying to pull some wool over your eyes here. First, unless you are a pro, you will not be enjoying that famous support. I'm not even sure ALL pros see that kind of support. Second, I doubt that even pros are being supported by Nikon, or Canon, if they are still using old, manual film SLRs. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

As for reliability and performance, those descriptors fit an awful lot of mechanical cameras. For goodness sake, even old Spotmatics with Takumar glass compete with Nikon in this arena.

So, if you are a pro, buying what the pros are currently using is probably good advice, as long as the equipment does what you need it to do as a pro. But for an amateur you may want to consider all your options. And even for pros there is a whole bunch more to this world then just Nikon.

 

[telenous]

If you are using the SLR in the same projects as your Ms then responsiveness and quietness are probably priorities. I have an R6.2, SL2, FE, EOS 5/A2 and had multiple copies of the FM3a. The one I use the most is the EOS 5 with slides (because it's the quietest) and the rest I use equally as the need for a specific feature arises (compactness, quietness etc). The shutter lug of the R6.2 is real and mildly off-putting. The FE has welcome (and minimal) automation but the shutter release sounds like a trashcan lid (kchang!). THE SL2 has a magnificent viewfinder and is as responsive as an M - but is also big, heavy and difficult to service. The FM3a's I had cost quite a lot and I was using them basically like an FE, so off they went. IMO between these cameras (or any film SLR that I have used) the one closest to an M is the SL2 but if you get one make sure it is serviced or that you can service it somewhere. Some nine years ago I had mine completely overhauled in CRR Luton and it keeps on ticking just fine. The Leica-R 60 is really good and the second version of the Elmarit-R 28 is up there with the Summicron-M 28. Perhaps even better in close range. Unfortunately it distorts in the corners and that's one thing that drives me crazy so I sold that one too.

.

 

[p.giannakis]

I think you have a decent amount of recommendations here. In my experience, a camera needs to be treated as a tool - the right one for the right job.

I would love to buy an M3 + cron but it will be a waste of money - i can only use AF-SLRs for the way i work. Pity but i know that this is the truth for me. If you are going to use the camera professionally buy the one with the best ergonomics - not everyone likes the OM-1 and the size of the Nikon F4/F5 is not for everyone either.

Choosing the correct focal length for your work is more important than the brand - I have tried to use the 28mm and failed miserably, it's just not for me. IF you are doing i.e. portraits a short tele would always be more useful than a Fisheye-Elmarit-R 2.8/16 (unless you are very creative).

Treat the camera as a tool and get the one that fits your circumstances best. Treat it as an investment and get the one more likely to hold its value.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,


As the registration is not the same on the M's and any SLR (for blindingly obvious reasons) the lenses must be different for a lot of focal lengths...


Having said that I expect the output (prints and slides) to be the same or very, very close.



Regards, David

 

[Steve M.]

Leica R lenses are of very high quality. For years and years I shot with an R 90 2.8 Elmarit, and recently found an R 90 2.0 Summicron at a good price and upgraded to that.

I gave up on shooting with Leica R camera bodies though. As you mentioned, many of their models suffer from sbutter lag (along with loud mirror flap). The Leicaflex cameras are the best in my opinion, and have fantastic view finders. But they're big, and expensive to have repaired if something breaks.

For these reasons, my preference is to shoot Leica R glass on Nikon bodies with an inexpensive adapter. The adapters are actually not adapters, they're different mounts that are easily swapped onto the lenses. Some are easier to change out than others. Using a lens like this on a Nikon camera means that you have to shoot in stop down mode, so cameras with AE capability are quicker to use. If I want to go with the best setup, I normally use a Nikon n8008s which features AE, AE exposure lock, spot metering (along with center weighted metering), and motorized film advance. For compact size a Nikon FG is hard to beat. Both these cameras are fully dependant on batteries, but the solution for that is to simply throw an extra set in your bag or pocket.

 

[philosli]

Thank you. I want to go to one system. Leica Glass. I have my M6tl (+m9) and will stick to it. I want to add film SLR. Leica R glass cause i think it will be the same family image wise.

Question is: Do i get a Leica R6 body with that glass or are the also mechanical Nikon fM2/FM3a better bodies to shoot with leitaxed R glas (R 60mm macro and R 28mm f2.8)

Is the R6 body nice and snappy (shutter wise) or are the Nikons much more responsive and a better choice because of that. (Have not had the chance to handle the R6 unfortunately, but i have handled the Nikon FM2/Fm3a)

I don't think there's anything wrong w/ your EOS 3. Just have a backup battery in the bag and you're good to go. Besides, a single battery goes a long way.

You should view Leica R as a completely different system from the M, just as any other SLRs. The optical formula of the lenses are different, in particular in the wider end. SLR wide-angle lenses are retro-focus because the rear elements need to clear the mirror.

 

[stedge]

I have a fm3a (actually, gave it to my daughter) and fm2n. Never shoot auto, so the 2n is my preference, and it is a couple hundred less. In AI/AIS-land that could be a couple excellent lenses...

An F3HP has a great viewfinder and like the F2 they can be swapped, but also requires batteries to work at all. Built like a tank, while the FM2/3 are much smaller/lighter and will still take a beating.

You can’t go wrong with any of them.

 

[Dralowid]

If you are a committed M user I think you need at least to hold and look through an SL or SL2. They are way more than just a camera that is said to be costly to repair, heavy and old. I could go on but I am obviously biased.

 

[x-ray]

@x-ray - Advice I give as a professional ton enthusiasts, look at what pros use and there's a reasonwe use a given brand. We don't pick our equipment on what is cool or what makes us look or feel cool. We buy based on performance, reliability and support from the manufacturer. Leicaflex or R equipment was never widely used in the pro world.

I agree wholeheartedly about Canon and Nikon support for pro photographers. If you are a pro then I recommend you go with the manufacturer who will support you.

But...I think x-ray may be trying to pull some wool over your eyes here. First, unless you are a pro, you will not be enjoying that famous support. I'm not even sure ALL pros see that kind of support. Second, I doubt that even pros are being supported by Nikon, or Canon, if they are still using old, manual film SLRs. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

While renewing my NPS membership last year I was surprised to read that Nikon supports some older film cameras depending on parts availability. Not every camera will be supported but some will.

No you won't get the 1 week turnaround of NPS but typically Nikon service runs about 2 weeks on most repairs. Much better than Leica, Yes, No?

 

[Pioneer]

While renewing my NPS membership last year I was surprised to read that Nikon supports some older film cameras depending on parts availability. Not every camera will be supported but some will.

No you won't get the 1 week turnaround of NPS but typically Nikon service runs about 2 weeks on most repairs. Much better than Leica, Yes, No?

I stand corrected x-ray...and I am impressed. That level of service from Nikon's professional services on out dated equipment is quite unexpected, but very nice.

 

[splitimageview]

Which ones do they still support? F5, F6?

 

[ptpdprinter]

Which ones do they still support? F5, F6?

F5, F6, FM10, FM3A. I'm actually surprised they repair the FM10 since it was a Cosina product.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

Pentax MX serviced by Eric Hendrickson

Chris

 

[splitimageview]

Eric is excellent.

Another possibility for a mechanical, non-battery dependent SLR is the Contax S2 (or S2b.) 1/4000, Titanium body, and of course all those luscious C/Y lenses which have the side benefit of being much lighter as a rule than R glass.

And shutter lag? What's that, says the Contax.

 

[x-ray]

F5, F6, FM10, FM3A. I'm actually surprised they repair the FM10 since it was a Cosina product.

Nikon still offers refurbished FM10's on their website. They actually still make quite a few AIs manual focus lenses.

I've not seen a list of supported film cameras.

 

[BillBingham2]

With a few exceptions, most SLRs need to wait for the mirror to swing up to start opening the shutter.

Is the price of older manual SLRs sufficiently low that the OP could purchase an additional one should the first need to go out for servicing?

When the OM-1 first came out there was a lot of marketing talk about the smoothness of the mirror flap and if I remember right something about it being fast. Might that be a way to go?

B2 (;->

 

[Pioneer]

I have an OM-1, and it is certainly a nice camera, but I don't notice it being any faster then any other camera of its type.

I think the fastest and smoothest SLR I have ever used is the F6. Though it is not a metal, mechanical, manual camera it is certainly one of the finest SLRs ever built in my opinion.

And I don't think I could be accused of being a Nikon fanboy. 😀