Turtle
Veteran
All of this continues to make me feel that film is more important to me now than ever before. The thought of a special edition Leica M digital is IMO farcical. It is unable to escape association with such a thing as a special edition iPOD in my mind or those ghastly special edition YSL/Gucci etc (Sony or whatever they are) cell phones you find in Dubai, which are the same as the regular model, but with horrid gold plate and cost 10X the price, before being discarded for being behind the curve 12 months later. Please, Leica, noooooooo!
myM8yogi
Well-known
I think Leica should go ahead.
Leica M has been collectible for a long time now. There is undoubtedly a market there for a collectible M8. Leica should get whatever revenue they can from the current digital technology... it will contribute to the cost of RnD for their next cameras. In this respect I don't see it as being any different to selling thousands of slow zoom auto digital compacts - not what I want to buy, but a good source of income for Leica.
Leica M has been collectible for a long time now. There is undoubtedly a market there for a collectible M8. Leica should get whatever revenue they can from the current digital technology... it will contribute to the cost of RnD for their next cameras. In this respect I don't see it as being any different to selling thousands of slow zoom auto digital compacts - not what I want to buy, but a good source of income for Leica.
Fred Burton
Well-known
Leica special addition M's aren't collectibles, they are "speculative investments." Made for collectors editions have never really been good investments, as cameras in general are not good investments. Trying to create a collectible from a digital camera smacks of desperation on Leica's part.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Well, Leica collectables can do better than the stock exchange....
http://www.schouten-select.com/products.asp?gid=57&aid=1042&Leica+M3+Prototype+Ultra+Rare
http://www.schouten-select.com/products.asp?gid=57&aid=1042&Leica+M3+Prototype+Ultra+Rare
cam
the need for speed
You can see it here (our bartender's site) :
http://cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm
allowing himself to be caught up in the excitement of wondering what Solms will commemorate next, Tom could wait no longer for his very own Jerry Garcia Purple Haze M4 Commemorative
So much for that "discreet" street shooter camera huh...
can i just say how stupendous that is? i think it's discreet as hell! no one in their right mind would actually believe it capable of taking pictures.... i want one!
delander
Newbie
I hate to see Leica spend any time money or effort doing this stuff when they have plenty of other things to do if they are to rebuild their reputation and gain the respect they once had as a serious camera maker.
Garrad are jewellers, Leica should just try to make the best cameras that they can not jewels.
Jeff
parsec1
parsec1
Purple M8..definitely sell well in San Francisco area and around Brighton in the UK..no doubt a 'Gay '....... IkonYou can see it here (our bartender's site) :
http://cameraquest.com/TAnotcoll.htm
allowing himself to be caught up in the excitement of wondering what Solms will commemorate next, Tom could wait no longer for his very own Jerry Garcia Purple Haze M4 Commemorative
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johnastovall
Light Hunter - RIP 2010
I had hoped with Hermes out of the picture and new mangement all these "specials" were a dead issue but apparently not.
Leica I want quality photographic instruments from you not fashion statements. :bang:
Leica I want quality photographic instruments from you not fashion statements. :bang:
parsec1
parsec1
Know somebody that has a WW11 Kreigsmarine 3c ?with 'Admiral Sheer' stamped on it. Supposed to be worth many thousands of $'s Although knowing the story of HMS Jervis Bay and Convoy HX84 I suspect there are many WW11 vets who would pay for the pleasure to have it destroyed.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ummm. assuming there is truth in this alleged rumour, which I have not (yet) seen anywhere else....
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Jeff,
How much does it cost to add some engraving and a funny finish?
How much time does it take off their standard production line?
How do you think their cameras would be better if they didn't make specials?
Are you aware that quite a lot of 'specials' are not Leica's idea, but are special-ordered as a batch by importers, clubs and even individuals?
Would you be stupid enough to turn down an order for (say) 50 or 100 cameras because the buyer wanted them engraved or painted a funny colour?
They DO make the best cameras they can (at least, with a modest regard for price). The cost-effectiveness of 'specials', in terms of euros earned per hour spent on making them, is enormous. They'd be fools not to make them
If you don't want a 'special' or 'commemorative', don't buy it. I don't. But why attack (a) those who do buy them and (b) Leica for making them?
Cheers,
Roger
Fred Burton
Well-known
Opinions not welcome.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Fred,
Surely, reasoned opinions are always welcome.
Opinions unsupported by reason must, however, generally be of limited value until we learn the reasoning behind them.
Also, a bare expression of preference is not an opinion. I don't like cheap chocolate ice-cream. Do I think this matters at all to the manufacturers of cheap chocolate ice cream? Do I think they should go out of business? Do I think it matters to those who do like cheap chocolate ice cream? No to all three questions. I just don't buy it.
Cheers,
Roger
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parsec1
parsec1
Roger, first you make a useable digital Leica camera then you would be proud to make special editions of it for those who desire such things.
Leica do not do this. I think they have realised that the M8 is out of date and of poor quality and therfore trying to make up their 'losses' on 'special editions'. From an advertising photographers point of view that makes good 'commercial and financial sense'.
I should stick the 'prancing horse badge' on the back of my Mrs' Ford Focus and sell it as a 'special edition'........................
Regards
Peter
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Peter,
I don't think the M8 is as bad as you do. I agree it's a long way from perfect, but equally, it's the best digital RF on the market today. 'Out of date and poor quality'? Not compared with the RANGEFINDER DIGITAL competition. I use the caps because others (not you) sometimes fail to appreciate the difficulty of building such a camera even with an 18x27mm sensor.
I'd still say they're making the best cameras they can, and that the extra cost/effort for 'special editions' makes eminent commercial sense if they want to stay in business.
I'd also cheerfully agree that a 'special edition' M8/M8.2 is not a camera for which I can see a great market -- but then, there does not seem to be much evidence that they are actually producing one.
Cheers,
Roger
I don't think the M8 is as bad as you do. I agree it's a long way from perfect, but equally, it's the best digital RF on the market today. 'Out of date and poor quality'? Not compared with the RANGEFINDER DIGITAL competition. I use the caps because others (not you) sometimes fail to appreciate the difficulty of building such a camera even with an 18x27mm sensor.
I'd still say they're making the best cameras they can, and that the extra cost/effort for 'special editions' makes eminent commercial sense if they want to stay in business.
I'd also cheerfully agree that a 'special edition' M8/M8.2 is not a camera for which I can see a great market -- but then, there does not seem to be much evidence that they are actually producing one.
Cheers,
Roger
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Come on, Peter, how should it be better? The noise-performance is the only realistic gripe. DxO just proved it to be on par with the 5D, better than the 50D, which tallies with the experience of real users - professionals. What you see onthe forums is underexposed rubbish. Reliability - there were some teething troubles, but they have been solved. It is as reliable as any camera you care to name. What elde?
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parsec1
parsec1
Dear Roger,
As you so rightly say the M8 is a long way from perfect.
Is 'a long way from perfect' good enough for Leica ?. It has never been so with thier other cameras.
Despite having a financed unlimited choice of equipment during our film days every press photographer or PJ would either use Leica's or carry one may be even two just to make sure that they could get their shot, if there was a problem with any of thier Nikons or Canons.
I have a bagfull of Nikon dig, would I carry an M8 just in case...I think not.
It would also seem a dissproportionate number of M8s are becoming fairly cheaply available second hand, that must say something.
I have no 'down' on Leica in fact quite the reverse.
My first camera was an M2 back in 1960 something when I was 15 yers old
and I have a couple of Ms now one of which I take on every assignment.
A long way from perfect is not good enough for Leica and this whole digital venture has proved a great dissapoinment to all of us that were hoping for something much better.
Regards
Peter
parsec1
parsec1
M2,3, 4, MP M6ttl .
I am a 'real user' and a pro. I have been shot at beaten up ,bombed out of my hotel(The Europa)
and kissed all in one day. I have recently returned from Kashmir (Shot at twice, 18 rounds form an AK47 on the way up plus an RPG and 9 rounds from another AK on the way back. I took the least expensive of my Nikon digi's and a Leica film camera 'Just in case' .I don't think I would have been so confident with an M8 in that same position.
Regards
Peter
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Fred Burton
Well-known
Dx0 has "proved" that the M8 is on a par with the 5D? Ain't math great. While I don't completely agree with that conclusion, that debate is behind us. The 5D is a three year old camera. The next generation of DSLR's is here, and the M8 doesn't even come close, noise wise or resolution wise.
There is no debate, though, that the M8 is the best digital M mount rangefinder you can buy.
There is no debate, though, that the M8 is the best digital M mount rangefinder you can buy.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I don't doubt that, Peter. Personally I would have settled for just the "kissed"part.
But that is hardly a basis for a general appraisal of a camera. I mean, for a car you would prefer an old Landrover Defender over a BMW 7 series in those conditions, but that does not make the BMW an unreliable car...