The "Sin" Of Being A RFF Amateur

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

ruben

Guest
First of all, I would like that no one get offended here.
Therefore, since the term "amateur" can be contraposed to the term "professional" I would like to clean the table concerning professionals.

There is a gross misunderstanding or prejudice in the stereotype that a professional is a mercenary shooting for money.

I mayself had been in close contact with many pros, from Israel and overseas, and found a single case in which I can speak about an eye gifted pro working for money and great disregard about the people photographed. A pro too has his sense of what is right and wrong, and I have met pros with very high sense of what is right or wrong. I think sitemistic is a good example of them, within RFF.

But the question I would like to pose is who are we, the RFF members, in the food chain of photography. What good things we all have in common and should be aware of very much.

In my opinion we are a very dynamic mass of people, very serioous about what we want to do.

Many of us have a great interest in gear, me included, and I cannot find any wrong here. Some of us have quite a very high knowledge of gear and we all are proud of them being part of us.

Also among us there are quite a lot of people with deep understanding of the hystory of photography. This is another great asset not found cheap on the streets of success. My deepest respect to these folks and my greatest hope they continue to contribute with their knowledge.

We have among us too, a big mass of anonymous shooters, whose pictures don't get commented. Each of them must have a great nerve to stand this situation. They deserve my respect, and my feeling of pride for them continuing within the RFF.

Then we have here too excellent shooters of the highest quality. Up to the point that from time to time exceptional fine art shooters do find RFF a nice place to display.

The last row of image promotion we have had, led both by Stephen and Jon, each one from his side, is a proof we are broad minded and sensible for the end result, the image.

In this list I would not like to forget some folks who have shown being people of extremely fine personal character, being another privilege of RFF.

So there is much Leica and gear talk here. Is this our sin ? Not at all. Leica is a legendary camera encroached with the very hystory of photographty. It fills much of our imagination and emotional associations with photography.

As for gear in general, in my experience, the most sophysticated photographers feel the same pleasure in touching-talking-being curious about a piece of gear, like any one among us. They just have less time for it. Our deep knowledge of old gear is a further twist for good in the equation.

There is another aspect to our existance, quite unique. Many photographers everywhere do street photography. But at the level of promoting street photography, our site is number one in holding the fire of this great torch.

And, no need to say, we all are intelligent people. Here, I admit to have a personal issue. I don't stand much some lunatics appearing from time to time, like some weeks ago in the Weekly Picks, telling us 'good efforts - continue !'

I call this breed "lunatic", because I have also known extremely well paid photographers, eye gifted, that beyond being eye-gifted are a round zero as human beings. One of the most repulsive things to see is an artist without soul, a kind of kid with his finger permanently digging within his nose. Knowing and speaking about himself and nothing else, i, e, not knowing even himself. Had this been the only way to be a great artist I would choose to be the worst shooter on Earth.

I am very happy of Stephen being the owner and his staff. He is a dynamic personality as well. he has introduced many good changes and will continue.

So what I am saying with all these ? We deserve respect. Respect in the deepest sense, not in the formal one. But first of all we deserve respecting ourselves. Let's not forget it for a single moment. We are a valuable international bunch of folks in the Photography world. We are not at all an amorphic mass of ignorants. Are we reckognized as such ? Pitty minded may worry about it. But we should be crystal clear about who we are.

Now I am sure not everything is perfect. Yet I would like that this thread wouldn't change into a complaints one, but rather into one adding to my list of pluses.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know where I have lost you, but perhaps Trius may help you.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
We, the RFF community, are a pretty special group and have a lot of value to the worldwide photographic community, for a variety of reasons.
 
Be brief. . .expand a little. . .LOL.
Ruben I, for one, respect your opinions and ethics as far as treating folks here on the forum.
Like most of us, I've seen forums go down fast with back biting and the actions of a few self-appointed prima donas.
I like visiting this site and talking about whatever the subject is.
 
Sorry Fred,

I am not going to argue with anyone at this thread. I will just say it seems to me you have absolutely misunderstood me.

Any one not understanding what I am talking about can simply read my o.p. twice.

And this has been my last intervention at this thread.

I wish all a contructive and postive thread.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
At least in the USA, amateur only means that you don’t make money from your vocation.
I’m sure that the major public doesn’t look at RFF for phonographic artistry, but we can still learn from what we do.
I make matte and framed photographs for sale in galleries for sale. If these sell, then they must be good. My criteria is that if people will open their wallet and give me money, things are good. That is the ultimate proof that people like your work.
Contests, galleries, web sites, they don’t matter. The public matters.
My Wife does glass sculpture. If people like it, they buy it. They can say what they want, but $ talks. It is the final vote!!!
You may not want to sell any of your photos, but listen to the public.
You’re doing great, Rubin. Do what you like! If you’re satisfied, that’s all that matters!!!
 
Well, at least most of you have a lot of value to people who want to sell crummy old obsolete cameras for plenty of money.

In all honesty, I would say that this forum is a good source of sometimes arcane technical information that occasionally gets posted, such as R-D1 lore, but good information is few and far between.

Being brutally honest.

1) There isn't a lot of technical acumen here in general. There are a few very bright lights countered by very many appallingly technically ignorant people here who are baffled/confused about things they acquire.

2) There are very many naifs when it comes to trading, buying and selling equipment. Not many who are astute at "the art of the deal", again with some notable exceptions. Unawareness of what constitutes the marketplace, and a childish attitude towards minor problems with dealers, etc.

3) The vast majority of images posted are technically OK at a beginner's level. There are very few images posted of any real interest in the big scheme of things. There are a FEW very good photographers here, but this is limited.

4) As a "social" board to pass the time of day, talk about equipment, trade recent beginner revelations about commonplace equipment, bodies, lenses, etc, this is a VERY good website. It serves it's purpose as a hangout for people who like to socialize. Maybe the digital analog of the old-time "camera club" or "AV squad".

5) It's a good place to chat with like-minded people from all over the world, one excellent feature of the internet.

I would be cautious about elevating the status of what goes on here to any other level, like as you may to believe otherwise.

Trius said:
We, the RFF community, are a pretty special group and have a lot of value to the worldwide photographic community, for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...
 
Perhaps take some of them aside and say, "why are you bothering with this, clearly you have absolutely no talent?"

This is the one thing you can't say to people.

Everyone has watched "American Idol".

Every single one of those people who line up to sing sincerely believes that they are one of the best singers in the world.

When they are ignominiously tossed off the stage, it's always someone else's fault that their great talent was not recognized.
 
much ado about nothing?

i think ruben's original post is pretty clear.

the way i read it?

rff is a pretty good place with lots of fine people.
what else do you think is good about rff?

ruben, am i close?

joe
 
M. Valdemar said:
Well, at least most of you have a lot of value to people who want to sell crummy old obsolete cameras for plenty of money.

In all honesty, I would say that this forum is a good source of sometimes arcane technical information that occasionally gets posted, such as R-D1 lore, but good information is few and far between.

Being brutally honest.

1) There isn't a lot of technical acumen here in general. There are a few very bright lights countered by very many appallingly technically ignorant people here who are baffled/confused about things they acquire.

2) There are very many naifs when it comes to trading, buying and selling equipment. Not many who are astute at "the art of the deal", again with some notable exceptions. Unawareness of what constitutes the marketplace, and a childish attitude towards minor problems with dealers, etc.

3) The vast majority of images posted are technically OK at a beginner's level. There are very few images posted of any real interest in the big scheme of things. There are a FEW very good photographers here, but this is limited.

4) As a "social" board to pass the time of day, talk about equipment, trade recent beginner revelations about commonplace equipment, bodies, lenses, etc, this is a VERY good website. It serves it's purpose as a hangout for people who like to socialize. Maybe the digital analog of the old-time "camera club" or "AV squad".

5) It's a good place to chat with like-minded people from all over the world, one excellent feature of the internet.

I would be cautious about elevating the status of what goes on here to any other level, like as you may to believe otherwise.
Click to expand...


Surely the mere grace of your presence elevates RFF above the muck of mediocrity.
 
Thank you so much for correcting me. I will now slink off into the background, read every photo book (technical or images) I have and hope to God that you are published so I can read yours as well.

Do you conduct workshops? Please send me the link.

M. Valdemar said:
Well, at least most of you have a lot of value to people who want to sell crummy old obsolete cameras for plenty of money.

In all honesty, I would say that this forum is a good source of sometimes arcane technical information that occasionally gets posted, such as R-D1 lore, but good information is few and far between.

Being brutally honest.

1) There isn't a lot of technical acumen here in general. There are a few very bright lights countered by very many appallingly technically ignorant people here who are baffled/confused about things they acquire.

2) There are very many naifs when it comes to trading, buying and selling equipment. Not many who are astute at "the art of the deal", again with some notable exceptions. Unawareness of what constitutes the marketplace, and a childish attitude towards minor problems with dealers, etc.

3) The vast majority of images posted are technically OK at a beginner's level. There are very few images posted of any real interest in the big scheme of things. There are a FEW very good photographers here, but this is limited.

4) As a "social" board to pass the time of day, talk about equipment, trade recent beginner revelations about commonplace equipment, bodies, lenses, etc, this is a VERY good website. It serves it's purpose as a hangout for people who like to socialize. Maybe the digital analog of the old-time "camera club" or "AV squad".

5) It's a good place to chat with like-minded people from all over the world, one excellent feature of the internet.

I would be cautious about elevating the status of what goes on here to any other level, like as you may to believe otherwise.
Click to expand...
 
I am published quite a bit, thank you, but at present I'm not conducting workshops.

However, my advice is available at market price online, which is to say, for nothing.

Trius said:
Thank you so much for correcting me. I will now slink off into the background, read every photo book (technical or images) I have and hope to God that you are published so I can read yours as well.

Do you conduct workshops? Please send me the link.
Click to expand...
 
Why should my personal observations bother you?

I certainly didn't have you in mind when I made them, as a matter of fact, I know nothing about you.

Why do my generalized remarks upset you? Do you feel you're a dilettante whom I am grouping together with the rest of the hoi polloi by proxy?
 
What it is, I guess, Valdemar, is that I like RFF, having been here a long time, and resent when someone comes in with a pompus attitude, dismissing "us" (RFF) as inferior and beneath them. Maybe it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Somehow just rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, shouldn't take it personally.
 
I like it too, I'm here and posting, aren't I?

(I don't have any link either. You can call me a pompous ass strictly by the "what you see is what you get" method.)

FrankS said:
What it is, I guess, Valdemar, is that I like RFF, having been here a long time, and resent when someone comes in with a pompus attitude, dismissing "us" (RFF) as inferior and beneath them. Maybe it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Somehow just rubs me the wrong way. Sorry, shouldn't take it personally.
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom