The UK is so hosed. And the US is catching up

bmattock

bmattock

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Man, I do feel sorry for you guys in the UK - and not just for the anti-photography laws, either! And I'm not slamming Britain, I have no doubt some of it came about as a result of the UK's cooperation with the US on the 'War on Terror' and no doubt we're next on the chopping block. Egads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7877182.stm
Government plans travel database

Similar schemes run in the US, Spain and Canada

The government is compiling a database to track and store the international travel records of millions of Britons.

Computerised records of all 250 million journeys made by individuals in and out of the UK each year will be kept for up to 10 years.

The government says the database is essential in the fight against crime, illegal immigration and terrorism.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7850871.stm
The latest stage of the project is that 17 local authorities will begin training staff in how to use the database, which will hold the name, address, parents' contact details, date of birth, school and doctor of every child in England.

Each child will also have a unique identifying number.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108496.stm
Britain is 'surveillance society'
Fears that the UK would "sleep-walk into a surveillance society" have become a reality, the government's information commissioner has said.
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There are up to 4.2m CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance
The United Kingdom is seen as a pioneer of mass surveillance. At the end of 2006 it was described by the Surveillance Studies Network as being 'the most surveilled country' among the industrialized Western states.[5] In 2008 plans were being made to collect data on people's phone, e-mail and web-browsing habits and were expected to be included in the Communications Data Bill. The "giant database" would include telephone numbers dialed, the websites visited and addresses to which e-mails are sent "but not the content of e-mails or telephone conversations."[6] Chris Huhne, Home affairs spokesman said: "The government's Orwellian plans for a vast database of our private communications are deeply worrying."[7]
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Public transport

In London, the Oyster card payment system can track the movement of individual people through the public transport system, although an anonymous option is available, while the London congestion charge uses computer imaging to track car number plates.
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Legislation

In 2002 the UK government announced plans to extend the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, so that at least 28 government departments would be given powers to browse citizens' web, email, telephone and fax records, without a warrant and without a subject's knowledge. Public and security authorities made a total of 440,000 requests to monitor people's phone and internet use in 2005-2006.
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It is very scary, and I find it shocking that the citizens allowed this to occur. Its a somewhat different proposition for the US to track its citizens as the UK does due to the sheer size of the country.
 
Typical inflammatory posting by this OP. What, there wasn't enough controversy going on here at RFF for you? Need to start something new so you could attack those who post here and don't agree 100% with you?

This "news" is at least 7 years old. The world changed after 9/11.

If you're not doing anything dishonest you got nothing to worry about. Governments have been watching their citizens and amassing files on them since at least WWII. There's just a few new ways to do it nowadays.
 
dfoo

I don't think computers are much bothered by the physical size of a country.

Bob
 
George S. said:
...
If you're not doing anything dishonest you got nothing to worry about. Governments have been watching their citizens and amassing files on them since at least WWII. There's just a few new ways to do it nowadays.
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That is exactly that attitude which has lead to your surveillance society. Don't worry, big brother will take care of its flock. Baaa.
 
Nikon Bob said:
I don't think computers are much bothered by the physical size of a country.
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True, but it is still possible to live 'off the grid' in the US, and there are some places cell-phone towers do not 'see'. Would that be true in the UK? I dunno, just asking.

As well, the sheer population size differences and the fact that the states still do not automatically share all data on their citizens with the federal government is some comfort; although that too is changing.

When we have to go through internal passport control to move from state to states...ah, me.
 
bmattock said:
True, but it is still possible to live 'off the grid' in the US, and there are some places cell-phone towers do not 'see'. Would that be true in the UK? I dunno, just asking.
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There are still some places in the UK where you can't get a cell-phone signal - usually where I end up on holiday!
 
dfoo said:
You still have to install the surveillance equipment.
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WRT travel data base, I think that all the equipment is likely already in place to make this possible. There is already data generated every time you book travel , depart on a flight or cross an international border to name a few circumstances. Nearly impossible to to not generate anything if you are moving about legally. Just connect the dots, different systems, and you are good to go. All of this has been going on for years and just accelerated after 911 gave extra impetus to do so. It will continue to grow.

Bob
 
I don't agree, and furthermore I don't see Bill attacking anyone in any post. Yes, he certainly disagrees with what some people, including myself, post. However, he also certainly has the right to do so!
 
George S. said:
If you're not doing anything dishonest you got nothing to worry about.
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The trouble is that history is full of incidents where what had been seen as benign, good behavior becomes an offense punishable by death. There had been a time when there was nothing wrong with being Jewish in Germany, to cite an extreme example. But if one looks at the Communist revolution in China and what happened to the so-called "intellectual elite," (people who had been doing nothing dishonest at all) one comes to the conclusion that "not doing anything dishonest" is not an effective defense.

I wish more people knew some history. We'd be able to avoid these offensive intrusions into personal lives that can serve no good.

In the US, there is an attitude among some people that it is better to jail an innnocent man than let a guilty man go free. These people claim to adghere to our "forefathers" ideals, yet are ignorant of the fact that the prevailing opinion of the founders of the US held that it is better to let a guilty man go free than imprison an innocent for even one day.

In the US there had been a careful separation of domestic intelligence (FBI, for ex.) and foreign intelligence (CIA, for ex.) The FBI inparticular seemed to be full of citizens very careful to maintain that separation to protect the rights of US citizens. They caught a whole lot of flack after Sept. 11, 2001 and that careful separation has been broken down to the detriment of what is claimed to be "the home of the free."

To butcher a famous and still timely quote, "those who willingly give up freedoms for safety deserve neither freedom nor safety."
 
bmattock said:
Man, I do feel sorry for you guys in the UK -
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The thing you don't include in your list is that the UK government has the most appalling record on the implementation of IT systems (and believe me I know, I work for them) - these databases will take years, cost a small fortune, but never actually work!
 
chris000 said:
The thing you don't include in your list is that the UK government has the most appalling record on the implementation of IT systems (and believe me I know, I work for them) - these databases will take years, cost a small fortune, but never actually work!
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You're absolutely right Chris - and if they ever do get it working no doubt someone will leave the data on a train, at a rubbish tip or "lose it in transit"! :eek:
 
Perhaps that's the only hope we have -- the inefficiency of large government systems.

I'm thinking right now about the dark comedy movie "Brazil" as a classic example.

~Joe
 
dfoo said:
I don't agree, and furthermore I don't see Bill attacking anyone in any post. Yes, he certainly disagrees with what some people, including myself, post. However, he also certainly has the right to do so!
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I don't want to keep this thing going, but I must say- respectfully, you don't see how he played with you in the past Fuji/Kodak earnings thread. OK, 'attacking' may have been a bit too harsh of a word. He can't let someone have a say and that be the end of it. The disagreements just go on and on and on with him posting his same comment over and over like you will suddenly do a 180 after hearing it again. and again. That shows no respect for others' opinions.
 
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