Roger Hicks
Veteran
Now, the mobile 'phone story is intriguing, and probably accounts for the increasingly erratic behaviour of my own mobile 'phone -- though it is a good few years old now, as I bought it before I left the UK in 2002. What we need now is a camera repairer to tell us if the same thing is true of digital cameras - and if so, of which digital cameras. I wonder, too, if the humidity may not be the result of 'phones being kept in humid pockets.
It also occurs to me that actually, many autofocus film SLRs had a truly impressive amount of electronics inside them, as do light meters, and that the only problem I've personally encountered is bad switches: if the SLR or meter wasn't used for several months, you might have to operate the release or reading button several times before it worked reliably. This leaves me somewhat less convinced that digital cameras really are all that different from film cameras. Sure, they may be; but I'd be interested to hear more evidence of their actually dying, rather than 'fear factor'.
Cheers,
R.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
No, I know that's the case. But there's a big difference between soaking a camera and using it in the rain, which was the original question: has anyone actually had an M8/M9 or other good-quality professional camera die from being used (sensibly) in the rain?
Cheers,
R.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Unsealed....
Years ago I moved an old CPM computer into the basement, a Xerox 820-II. The basement was pretty much the cat's domain. Nina asked a technical question that could only be explained by wiring up two computers with an O-Scope between them. The cat, Nina's favorite, vied for her attention- was annoyed that the computer was getting it.
Later that night, as we were sleeping, the cat peed into the keyboard. I cleaned it out with alchohol, it worked fine after that. Try not to let cats pee into your electronics, but if they do- clean them as quickly as you can.
Later that night, as we were sleeping, the cat peed into the keyboard. I cleaned it out with alchohol, it worked fine after that. Try not to let cats pee into your electronics, but if they do- clean them as quickly as you can.
sig
Well-known
I am confused..... weather sealing that stops dust is valid and not in fantasy land, but the ones that stops water is a macho fantasy thing we do not need?
I have had 2 cameras that have been affected by dust/sand, 1 died the other one needed to have the lens or the sensor replaced. But since it was not water or rain I guess that does not count, still confused
I have had 2 cameras that have been affected by dust/sand, 1 died the other one needed to have the lens or the sensor replaced. But since it was not water or rain I guess that does not count, still confused
Turtle
Veteran
Got dust into the lens of a Pentax MZ-5 some years back and ruined it. Went all graunchy and crunched when focusing, seized... all sorts.
Its real. Only a tiny minority really put cameras through serious weather tests on a regular basis but for pros working in rain, sleet, snow, dust and heavy rain regularly i dont think there is any substitute. There i no comparison between most amateur users and the requirements of pros who, for example, would regularly photograph while helicopters are moving and vehicles kicking up dust (gets into everything) and standing in pouring rain.
Its real. Only a tiny minority really put cameras through serious weather tests on a regular basis but for pros working in rain, sleet, snow, dust and heavy rain regularly i dont think there is any substitute. There i no comparison between most amateur users and the requirements of pros who, for example, would regularly photograph while helicopters are moving and vehicles kicking up dust (gets into everything) and standing in pouring rain.
eddie1960
Established
I'm reasonably careful to protect my cameras from rain, but not to the extent that I will miss a shot. My K10 pentax has been hit by beer and sweat more than once when shooting in the pit at concerts I wipe it down and keep shooting. If I was lucky enough to own an M9 it wouldn't be my concert camera though.
as for resilience of the old cameras my first camera was a Zenit. I shot ski racing with it in the middle of Blizzards, Football from the bench in the rain and mud (dropped it in puddle more than once after dodging being hit by a running player) and it never failed surprisingly enough
I doubt i would risk any camera i couldn't replace easily in the same scenarios though
as for resilience of the old cameras my first camera was a Zenit. I shot ski racing with it in the middle of Blizzards, Football from the bench in the rain and mud (dropped it in puddle more than once after dodging being hit by a running player) and it never failed surprisingly enough
I doubt i would risk any camera i couldn't replace easily in the same scenarios though
Ade-oh
Well-known
Not a camera but... about 14 years ago I blew a sizeable chunk of a book advance on a laptop computer which, back in those pioneering days, was about £2000. I'd been happily using it for a few months and was actually sitting on a sofa in my living room downloading emails on the impressive, built-in, 28.8kbps modem, when my two year old son spilled most of his plastic beaker of Ribena into it. It stopped working with an audible 'pffst' sound. Undaunted, I took the battery out and set the computer to dry in an airing cupboard for 48 hours, and it worked fine afterwards particularly after I'd got a technician to clean up the keyboard properly.
Which proves... not very much. Except that I would suggest that consumer electronics are often more robust than we would usually give them credit for, and that if you look after them, environmental factors shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Which proves... not very much. Except that I would suggest that consumer electronics are often more robust than we would usually give them credit for, and that if you look after them, environmental factors shouldn't be too much of an issue.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Even for pros there is no substitute for rain covers unless the job is so well paid that it covers sending in the inundated gear for service right after the event.
wgerrard
Veteran
Here in the U.S. and elsewhere, four-wheel drive vehicles are sold on TV with video of them racing over wild hills and canyons, miles from the nearest road. Almost no one who buys the things ever takes them off the highway. But the fantasy commercials sell them.
Yet, for people who need them, they are indispensable.
As an amateur, I wouldn't mind if my cameras were really weather sealed, but it is not at all indispensable. Unless I'm caught in a sudden storm, I'm simply not going to be out in weather bad enough to threaten a camera. Perhaps I'm a weather wimp, but there you go.
So, I wouldn't avoid a camera because it is sealed, but I would not buy one for that reason, either.
Professionals and others who cannot, or will not, simply decide to stay indoors need weather sealing.
Bob's comment about sweat damaging the shutter mechanism on his Zeiss Ikon makes me wonder if humidity is more of a potential threat than we might imagine. After all, most cameras are made in countries that are not known for being muggy. [EDIT: On second thought, that's doubtful. But, the point remains. Protecting a camera from rain and dust is not the same as protecting a camera from humidity.] I wonder about the long-term impact of alternating a camera between a warm humid environment and a cool dry air conditioned environment.
As for dust storms, unless you are a pro on an assignment, if you are outside in a dust storm taking pictures, someone should probably take the camera away from you.
Yet, for people who need them, they are indispensable.
As an amateur, I wouldn't mind if my cameras were really weather sealed, but it is not at all indispensable. Unless I'm caught in a sudden storm, I'm simply not going to be out in weather bad enough to threaten a camera. Perhaps I'm a weather wimp, but there you go.
So, I wouldn't avoid a camera because it is sealed, but I would not buy one for that reason, either.
Professionals and others who cannot, or will not, simply decide to stay indoors need weather sealing.
Bob's comment about sweat damaging the shutter mechanism on his Zeiss Ikon makes me wonder if humidity is more of a potential threat than we might imagine. After all, most cameras are made in countries that are not known for being muggy. [EDIT: On second thought, that's doubtful. But, the point remains. Protecting a camera from rain and dust is not the same as protecting a camera from humidity.] I wonder about the long-term impact of alternating a camera between a warm humid environment and a cool dry air conditioned environment.
As for dust storms, unless you are a pro on an assignment, if you are outside in a dust storm taking pictures, someone should probably take the camera away from you.
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Roger Hicks
Veteran
For those who still don't get it, or are 'confused', here is the original question:
How many M8/M9 users have had their cameras written off by rain? Or, indeed, any other camera written off by rain or spray?
And from post 51:
The point about dust is entirely reasonable, which is why I specifically referred to rain; the thread was prompted by the thread asking who uses their cameras in the rain.
No-one denies that weather sealing is a good idea. Nor does anyone deny that for a war reporter photographing a helicopter taking off in the desert, it is pretty much essential. I'm just trying to find it if it is quite as important as some people seem to think in normal use, or whether they're buying into a fantasy.
Bill's comment about fantasy selling 4WDs is a good illustration of the same thing. Personally I can't quite see the point of running a serious 4WD unless you go off road sometimes, but even if you do, it's mostly still fantasy: I don't need to go exploring abandoned Spanish villages accessible only via washed-out roads, or driving on Hungarian logging roads, but it's something I do from time to time.
My suspicion is that many people buy weather-sealed cameras on the basis of pure fantasy. Some buy them 'just in case' (which is fine), but others, frightened that their 'non-weather-sealed' cameras wouldn't stand up to perfectly normal usage, are scared out of using those cameras because they think that only 'weather-sealed' cameras can be used in the rain.
And, to repeat, some buy weather sealed cameras because they really need them, just as some people really need Land Rovers. But quite a lot of people are either buying a fantasy, or are scared off using other cameras because of that fantasy.
No-one has yet answered (or indeed attempted to answer) the original, very clear question: How many M8/M9 users have had their cameras written off by rain? Or, indeed, any other camera written off by rain or spray?
Cheers,
R.
How many M8/M9 users have had their cameras written off by rain? Or, indeed, any other camera written off by rain or spray?
And from post 51:
The point about dust is entirely reasonable, which is why I specifically referred to rain; the thread was prompted by the thread asking who uses their cameras in the rain.
No-one denies that weather sealing is a good idea. Nor does anyone deny that for a war reporter photographing a helicopter taking off in the desert, it is pretty much essential. I'm just trying to find it if it is quite as important as some people seem to think in normal use, or whether they're buying into a fantasy.
Bill's comment about fantasy selling 4WDs is a good illustration of the same thing. Personally I can't quite see the point of running a serious 4WD unless you go off road sometimes, but even if you do, it's mostly still fantasy: I don't need to go exploring abandoned Spanish villages accessible only via washed-out roads, or driving on Hungarian logging roads, but it's something I do from time to time.
My suspicion is that many people buy weather-sealed cameras on the basis of pure fantasy. Some buy them 'just in case' (which is fine), but others, frightened that their 'non-weather-sealed' cameras wouldn't stand up to perfectly normal usage, are scared out of using those cameras because they think that only 'weather-sealed' cameras can be used in the rain.
And, to repeat, some buy weather sealed cameras because they really need them, just as some people really need Land Rovers. But quite a lot of people are either buying a fantasy, or are scared off using other cameras because of that fantasy.
No-one has yet answered (or indeed attempted to answer) the original, very clear question: How many M8/M9 users have had their cameras written off by rain? Or, indeed, any other camera written off by rain or spray?
Cheers,
R.
tlitody
Well-known
do you have a snorkel on your landrover? When I bought mine the salesman tried to sell me one. I made him give me me a better discounted price on the landy just for the insult or I'd go buy it somewhere else.
Because it is a huge minority of people, even member here, who actually have these cameras, never mind as you imply, members with them who actually use them in conditions where it actually matters if they are sealed or not.
You should have asked him to allow you to test drive it with the snorkel under water and then go to another dealer to buy the vehicle.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Quite. As you might guess, no, I don't. Yes, I ford rivers occasionally (there's supposed to be a piece scheduled in a couple of months in Land Rover World called 'Fords and Land Rovers'). But to need a snorkel, you've got to be doing something pretty extreme -- the Land Rover equivalent of photographing helicopers landing in a desert, from close up.
Cheers,
R.
tlitody
Well-known
But sealed lenses and camera body seem like a good idea to me. The only disadvantage I see is cost. Do I need it? Mostly not. Might it occasionally save my equipment from water damage? Yes. Is it worth having? Probably. What else is there to say? My guess is a lot. Will it be worth hearing? We'll see....
Paul Luscher
Well-known
To be frank, I don't use my M9 under conditions which require me to worry about weather sealing. It's more of a "people-shooter" camera for me.
If I'm going to be shooting landscapes, etc, outdoors, I grab my E-3, sorry to say. For one, I prefer the more precise framing of an SLR when I'm doing this kind of work. And yes, the E-3's weather sealing comes in very handy at times.
And let's face it: I'm not comfortable with possibly destroying a $7,000 camera, when I have a cheaper SLR that will do the job better, under the circumstances...
If I'm going to be shooting landscapes, etc, outdoors, I grab my E-3, sorry to say. For one, I prefer the more precise framing of an SLR when I'm doing this kind of work. And yes, the E-3's weather sealing comes in very handy at times.
And let's face it: I'm not comfortable with possibly destroying a $7,000 camera, when I have a cheaper SLR that will do the job better, under the circumstances...
kshapero
South Florida Man
Well not exactly. I value my life more than my camera (although sometimes I think they are the same).