Thinking about a P (any for sale?)

Chuck A

Chuck A

Chuck A
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I recently bought an Oly RD. It had just beed cla'd by Essex and the receipt came with it. I got it for just a bit more than the CLA. It is a lovely camera, nice size for a carryaround, very quiet and a bright viewfinder. The rf patch is pretty good but like most of the fixed lens rf cameras it is a bit nondescript. I really like it and it is a worthy addition to my growing collection.

Anyway, The viewfinder looks to be about a .6 mag like my RC. I want to add a camera with a higher mag viewfinder. My eyes are getting older and I find myself squinting to see details in the lower mag finders. It is not a deal breaker for me but I want to try a larger finder and see how I like it. Plus this way I can add to my collection. I am worried that a .7 finder will not be enough mag but alas I can't see one locally. I wish that I could try some of these things without having to buy them first.

My choices seem to be the Canon P, Bessa R3A or a Leica with a .85 mag finder. The Leicas are a bit out of my price range at the moment. The Bessa R3A scares me a bit. It seems larger than the P and Ms and from what I hear it is louder as well. Anyway, the only strike against the P is the lack of a meter. The P is better looking IMHO as well.

How does the P compare to the R3A? Does anyone have a P they might part with?
 
Hi Chuck,
The Canon VI-L with it's variable mag finder might be better than the P for the reasons you describe. It has 0.65x for 35, 1.0x for 50 and 100 and the 1.55x setting works well as for acurate focussing or a 135.

Kim
 
Kim Coxon said:
Hi Chuck,
The Canon VI-L with it's variable mag finder might be better than the P for the reasons you describe. It has 0.65x for 35, 1.0x for 50 and 100 and the 1.55x setting works well as for acurate focussing or a 135.

Kim
Click to expand...

Kim,

Does the VI-L have framelines for the different focal lengths or does the frame zoom. I have never seen one and am trying to understand how this works.
 
Hey, Chuck - a person who's shopping for a Canon P is a person who's thinking clearly. Although, I'll second what Kim said about the VI-L. It's a camera that's been on my short list for some time. Another you might want to consider along the same lines as the P is its predecessor, the L1. It seems a bit harder to find, however.

I will say, though, that I followed exactly the same path when it came to "getting into" rangefinders. I initially found an Oly SPn, which I later sold (I'm still regretting that). In my quest for an interchangeable lens RF, I found that the Canon P suited me perfectly. It's been my daily driver ever since.

That said, you might want to think about the following lists of "P Quirks". These are only my opinions, but perhaps these will help you draw some differences among your possible choices.

-----
Pros:

1. The shutter will never burn because of sun focusing on the curtain, since it's steel.
2. the P has a film transport window, showing when wind-on is working
3. it has a very bright 1:1 finder, which to my knowledge also exists only in the R3A (perhaps among others)
4. The P has a very solid "feel", and its body covering is among the sturdiest I've ever seen.
5. the shutter is quite quiet, although I can't compare it to the Leica standard. It is, however, very firm and sure in its travel.
6. the P has a "modern", single non-rotating shutterspeed dial.
7. I think the rewind crank is among this nicest design features I've ever seen on a camera.

Cons:

1. un-wrinkled shutters are hard to find in the P, but wrinkles are mostly cosmetic.
2. the film transport collar (rewind/advance) is a bit fiddly to get at, and releasing it fires a cocked shutter (keep that lenscap on)
3. The door release is a dual-latch affair, but it is quite secure.
4. because of the design of its albada-type finder and the RF optics, the RF patch is "fuzzy-edged" (for me this is a con, but sharp-edged RF patches are not as common as the alternative)
5. older/less well-kept examples will have a dimming RF patch, which may respond well to a CLA
6. the 35mm frameline is well toward the outside of the VF, giving problems for folks with glasses (to my knowledge)
7. the P has no parallax-correction pin in the accessory shoe, which I think the VI-L does. Kim or others can correct me on this.

"Neutral" Facts:

1. the finder shows all framelines at the same time, and they are reflected, which means they are quite sensitive to flare. I use a 50mm lens about 95% of the time, so I don't even "see" the lines anymore.

-----

Wow. I wrote way more than I had intended. Ah, well - take it with a grain of salt. And be sure to ask joe (back alley) what HE thinks about his P. Good hunting.


Cheers,
--joe.
 
Hi Chuck
Both the V series which include the L's and the VI series share the same finder. It has a rotaing element in the finder which is turned by a thumbwheel just to the right of the eyepiece. With 35 set, the mag is 0.65x. If you rotate the finder, the mag changes to 1.0x and there are lines shown both both a 50mm and 100mm lens. From these it is quite easy to judge the 85 position. If you go further to the "mag" position the finder changes to 1.55x. With a static object this will give you very accurate focus before switching back to one of the others for framing. Many say you can also use it with a little judgment for a 135mm lens. The frames are also coupled for paralax and the is indeed a pin which corrects the later hotshoe finders for paralax as well. The L series are the earlier ones and have a 2 dial speed selector.

The P was basically a cut down budget version of the VI-L so most of the other comments are the same. With mine, despite it being a metal shutter, it is no noisier than and M2 or M3. I did have it listed in the classifieds but removed it as there was little interest and it is about to go on eBay. I may also have a "beater" P for sale soon. Of the 2, the VI-L is the nicer camera. When new the P was 52.700 yen with a 1.4 lens whereas the VI-L was about 80,000 with a 1.8.

More info on the Canon rangefinders here http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/series/f_range.html

Kim


Chuck A said:
Kim,

Does the VI-L have framelines for the different focal lengths or does the frame zoom. I have never seen one and am trying to understand how this works.
Click to expand...
 
I have a Canon P + Canon 50mm 1.8 both in very nice shape. What do I want for it? I want what I paid not a cent more, not a cent less. I paid $450.00, shipping is extra and if you use paypal add 3%. I have pics if you are interested PM me. I purchased the camera from a member of RFF...All speeds are on everything works at it should. The shutter has 1 tiny mark on it very nice for a P. The lens is clean and clear and focus is buttery smooth. I would keep the camera but I have tuition and my car insurance are both due very soon!
 
Wow, you are selling your cameras to pay for car insurance and tuition? You've already sold your microwave, your coach and your TV I guess...
 
i've never used either the v or vi series cameras but i love the canon p.

i know i may have lost my credibility having sold my 3 p's but that can't dimisnish my experiences with them. i just didn't want to have 2 mounts going at one time. it's the same reason i won't allow myself to have a contax/nikon or keiv camera either.

the p was made as a budget camera but no one told that to the p. it is rock solid and if you find one with a good finder it is bright and clear. my old eyes do have an easier time with a hard edged focus patch than the soft edged p but i never really had a problem with it.
it's a simple well made camera that will last as long anything made.

joe
 
back alley said:
it's a simple well made camera that will last as long anything made.

joe
Click to expand...

Hear, hear.

And as an aside to Chuck, in my opinion the lack of a meter makes the P a better camera for those wishing for a more "uncomplicated" shooting experience. Besides, on-board meters of that era are somewhat fiddly. Of course, the TTL metering of the R3A might be a religious experience by comparison...

I've heard good things about the clip-on Voigtlander VCII meter, but I actually carry a Minolta Autometer VF around with me when metering is important. Of course - and in the interest of full disclosure - I own the Canon clip-on meter designed for the IV and V series of Canon RFs (including the P). It's merely for "completeness".

...okay, it was GAS. So sue me.


Cheers,
--joe.
 
i hope that jim won't mind this...i'm quoting jlw as the author of the following...

The Canon P is a "sweet spot" in RF camera evolution: It has enough modern features to be
convenient, but retains classic look and feel. It's elegant and prestigious (in a restrained way) but not so much so that you'll be afraid to take it out and use it. Owning one impresses those in the know, without attracting the attention of status-conscious wankers.
 
planetjoe said:
Cons:


2. the film transport collar (rewind/advance) is a bit fiddly to get at, and releasing it fires a cocked shutter (keep that lenscap on)


Cheers,
--joe.
Click to expand...


I have heard this mentioned several times that the "P" fires the shutter when the rewind collar is activated. Perhaps both of my P's are broken but I tested them with no film in them and the back open, with a shutter speed of 1/30th and f1.8 setting on lens. I engaged the rewind collar (which is indeed a little bit fiddly); it sounds like the shutter is firing but in actuality the curtains do not open so no film will be exposed or over exposed.

I have had both of these CLA'd by Essex so I doubt that they are broken, I can't imagine Canon designing a camera of this quality with a quirk like firing the shutter when rewinding.

Wayne
 
It doesn't "fire" the shutter as such but both curtains do reset to the uncocked position. They normally travel together so there is no exposure as such.

Kim
 
Planetjoe and Kim went all out in their explanations. Thanks to everyone else as well. It is great to see the P has such a following. I see it as a great camera and a less expensive way to get into a larger finder and interchangeable lenses. I can probably get into a P for $400-$500 with a lens. This is about perfect for me. The R3A would be more expensive. Probably more like $600-$800 depending on the lens. The Leicas, well you know how much they are. As far as a meter goes, I have a couple of handheld meters to use when needed.

On the P, is there any room outside the 35mm frameines. I like being able to see outside of the lines and will probably use a 35mm lens on it as well as a 50mm. It doesn't sound like the VI-L or T have framelines for 35mm. I find that a 40mm can be just about right for most situations. I don't think that I have ever seen a 40mm in LTM though.
 
Be sure to consider the "siblings" of the P as well. I have a L1, and it's a wonderful body. Very easy to hold and use, parallax correction of a shoe-attached finder (if you use Canon finders that support it), and clean lines (and a generic front view - no "Canon" logo). The ability to switch the viewfinder on all of these is a great feature and I use it if I want to travel without a finder. When I'm using a finder I switch it to "RF" mode which is supposedly approximate to a 135mm view. Great for fine focusing, then move the eye to the viewfinder. It's my preferred body for Leica thread-mount lenses. When I need something more compact I use an older Leica or Leica clone body like my Tower-3. But what a joy it is to load film without hassle with the Canon!
 
Chuck A said:
On the P, is there any room outside the 35mm frameines. I like being able to see outside of the lines and will probably use a 35mm lens on it as well as a 50mm.
Click to expand...


Very little, but it's there as long as you can scrunch your eye up real close to the viewfinder.

Another point to make about the P - the shutter mechanisms seem to age well - very few need servicing to maintain accurate speeds even after 30 years.
 
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