shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Peter, the newer E-510 or the upcoming E-3 are better cameras, quality-wise and value-wise.
And you still can use the 4/3rd Leica glass on them.
Like kuzano, I also have the E-300 with flat top, it's a very good camera. But I am looking forward to upgrade to the E-3.
Just a thought.
And you still can use the 4/3rd Leica glass on them.
Like kuzano, I also have the E-300 with flat top, it's a very good camera. But I am looking forward to upgrade to the E-3.
Just a thought.
photogdave
Shops local
I know. I've used it. It's a BIG sucker!QUAsit said:
kevin m
Veteran
So Leica/Oly/Pana are repeating Canon's mistake: Not making any compact prime lenses for the small sensor cameras.
Pffft. No sale. :bang:
kuzano
Veteran
kevin m said:
Well, there may yet be salvation. Unlike Canon, the 4:3 mount is cross platform, so only one of those manufacturers needs to smarten up and create a compact lens, and all of them will be able to use it. I'm betting Oly will step up to the plate first, since their name is synonymous with compact cameras, ie, the OM, XA, and so on. Also, the largere potential market because of the 4:3 platform may attract Sigma, Tokina, etc into a compact lens for the whole 4:3 market. The 4:3 market is all about compact cameras, so someone has to fill the empty space in the lens category.
I like my E300, and I too am looking forward to an e510. In respect to the sensor size and the price/camera size trade off, I have every faith that the 4:3 camp will kick butt on all the other sensor sized DSLRs, except for the full size sensor crowd. And it's not crowded in the full 35mm sensor camp, but a full sensor camera will set me back at least 8X the price of the e510.
kevin m
Veteran
I sure hope so. Then the platform would be an interesting alternative between compact P&S's and full-sized DSLR's.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I've also been sorta looking at this camera lately. With an OM to 4/3s adapter, you can use OM fast primes, albeit using manual focus and stop-down metering.
peterm1
Veteran
Its odd how this one divides opinion.
Either you love it or you hate it. I like the look of it and the way it handles. (I kinda think of it as the rangefinder I am having when I am not having a rangefinder.- Due I might add to its handling.)
I also like the fact that with a cheap adapter I can use ALL (repeat ALL)of my Nikkor lenses on it with full (well, center weighted, stopped down) metering. Even the nikon D200 will not allow non AI nikkors to mount. Sheesh get a life Nikon!
Despite having a smaller sensor, (which I have to admit is the main negative in my view) it still is said to turn in a very respectable photo quality - absent some noise issues at high ISO settings. And being a Nikon D70s user, I do not think its likely to be worse than the Nikon D70s for noise, which is diabolical.
A lot of posts and reviews refer to its lovely handling of color and i have to admit there seems to be something too this. The color shots I haev seen on screen are very nice indeed.
So maybe its an Aussie thing (we love to bet on the under-dog) but I think I have to have it. Shhhhhhhh just dont tell my wife!
Either you love it or you hate it. I like the look of it and the way it handles. (I kinda think of it as the rangefinder I am having when I am not having a rangefinder.- Due I might add to its handling.)
I also like the fact that with a cheap adapter I can use ALL (repeat ALL)of my Nikkor lenses on it with full (well, center weighted, stopped down) metering. Even the nikon D200 will not allow non AI nikkors to mount. Sheesh get a life Nikon!
Despite having a smaller sensor, (which I have to admit is the main negative in my view) it still is said to turn in a very respectable photo quality - absent some noise issues at high ISO settings. And being a Nikon D70s user, I do not think its likely to be worse than the Nikon D70s for noise, which is diabolical.
A lot of posts and reviews refer to its lovely handling of color and i have to admit there seems to be something too this. The color shots I haev seen on screen are very nice indeed.
So maybe its an Aussie thing (we love to bet on the under-dog) but I think I have to have it. Shhhhhhhh just dont tell my wife!
QUAsit
Established
Trius said:
After Canon, Sony/Minolta i-adapters with focus confirmation, Russian people create the same thingy for 4/3 system.
Bill58
Native Texan
Ricoh has just come out w/ the GRD ll. Might be worth looking at.
peterm1
Veteran
OK I have now done the deed and bought the camera
Here are my impressions. I quite like the handling of the camera, as it has a shutter speed dial and the Leica 14-50mm lens that comes with the kit has an aperture ring. It looks and to a lesser extent handles like a rangefinder although it is in fact a porro-prism SLR. It uses an arrangement like some early program cameras - if the shutter speed and aperture ring are both set to A it is in full program mode. If he aperture ring is set to a specific aperture, it reverts to aperture priority and if the shutter ring is set to a specific speed it is set to shutter priority. If both are set to a specific setting it is in full manual mode. The lens is sharp but shots out of the camera need a little further sharpening. I suppose this is normal and this appears to be due to the cameras handling of noise rather than anything else. And I am used to this with my Nikon D70s whose images always need more sharpening than other cameras I am told.
I do think that the focusing will take some getting used to as some shots appear to be slightly off focus. When shooting a general landscape shot if there is no immediate main point of interest in the vicinity, I normally try for something approximating hyperfocal shooting (by focusing at a point on the ground about a third of the way into the field of view unless I have a specific subject in mind.) I seem to be off a bit in some shots. Maybe I just need practice. Manual focusing is possible but I have not tried that properly yet. I will be interested to see what its focus assist is like. The onboard flash is a joy. It is two stage - bounce setting at the first button push, then direct at the second. Both give great exposures, much better if I may say so than my D70s with more fill and better color.
While on the subject of color, many have commented on this cameras handling of tones and color. And I agree it has a very nice tonality and white balance is spot on. Again unlike my D70s which struggles in doors in artificial light.
The cameras best feature that I have noticed to date is that you can have several film type settings (eg color normal, color dynamic etc as well as several black and white film settings. I was skeptical of this, being a hardened Photoshop user for color to black and white conversions but I think its in-camera handling of black and white is nothing short of brilliant for most shots. Look at the sky in this first photo. I was prepared for dull contrast and washed out skies. But the first shot below is typical of what the camera produces for sky shots. It appears to handle skies much better than any unfiltered film camera I have ever seen. The second shot shows typical tonality for mixed color scenery - its seems to be applying a digital equivalent of a color filter. I have been debating whether to keep this or my Nikon. My current thinking is that even if I just kept this to shoot black and white I would be in front and save myself a lot of Photoshop time. Neither of these shots use the cameras "dynamic" black and white setting which appears to give darker and more dramatic skies. i.e. This was with a normal black and white option. Both shots are pretty much untouched except for resizing for this post and a modicum of Photoshop sharpening.
Here are my impressions. I quite like the handling of the camera, as it has a shutter speed dial and the Leica 14-50mm lens that comes with the kit has an aperture ring. It looks and to a lesser extent handles like a rangefinder although it is in fact a porro-prism SLR. It uses an arrangement like some early program cameras - if the shutter speed and aperture ring are both set to A it is in full program mode. If he aperture ring is set to a specific aperture, it reverts to aperture priority and if the shutter ring is set to a specific speed it is set to shutter priority. If both are set to a specific setting it is in full manual mode. The lens is sharp but shots out of the camera need a little further sharpening. I suppose this is normal and this appears to be due to the cameras handling of noise rather than anything else. And I am used to this with my Nikon D70s whose images always need more sharpening than other cameras I am told.
I do think that the focusing will take some getting used to as some shots appear to be slightly off focus. When shooting a general landscape shot if there is no immediate main point of interest in the vicinity, I normally try for something approximating hyperfocal shooting (by focusing at a point on the ground about a third of the way into the field of view unless I have a specific subject in mind.) I seem to be off a bit in some shots. Maybe I just need practice. Manual focusing is possible but I have not tried that properly yet. I will be interested to see what its focus assist is like. The onboard flash is a joy. It is two stage - bounce setting at the first button push, then direct at the second. Both give great exposures, much better if I may say so than my D70s with more fill and better color.
While on the subject of color, many have commented on this cameras handling of tones and color. And I agree it has a very nice tonality and white balance is spot on. Again unlike my D70s which struggles in doors in artificial light.
The cameras best feature that I have noticed to date is that you can have several film type settings (eg color normal, color dynamic etc as well as several black and white film settings. I was skeptical of this, being a hardened Photoshop user for color to black and white conversions but I think its in-camera handling of black and white is nothing short of brilliant for most shots. Look at the sky in this first photo. I was prepared for dull contrast and washed out skies. But the first shot below is typical of what the camera produces for sky shots. It appears to handle skies much better than any unfiltered film camera I have ever seen. The second shot shows typical tonality for mixed color scenery - its seems to be applying a digital equivalent of a color filter. I have been debating whether to keep this or my Nikon. My current thinking is that even if I just kept this to shoot black and white I would be in front and save myself a lot of Photoshop time. Neither of these shots use the cameras "dynamic" black and white setting which appears to give darker and more dramatic skies. i.e. This was with a normal black and white option. Both shots are pretty much untouched except for resizing for this post and a modicum of Photoshop sharpening.
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saldun70
Trying to find range...
These are nice, Peterm1. I had given up on the idea of getting one of these and ended up with a Nikon D80. My main concern was reports of a very small and dull viewfinder. How did you find that side of things?
peterm1
Veteran
These are nice, Peterm1. I had given up on the idea of getting one of these and ended up with a Nikon D80. My main concern was reports of a very small and dull viewfinder. How did you find that side of things?
I had worried about the viewfinder "issue" but in fact I have found it not to be a problem at all. I think if stop to consider it and I had my preferences it would be slightly larger and yes, slightly brighter but the truth is that when I am actually shooting with the camera it has not even impinged on my consciousness.
I look at it this way - if you have ever shot with a Leica 111a or a Canon IVSB and know what their viewfinders are like, well this camera is nothing like that. So anyone who shoots most classic rangefinder cameras (save for the M series which have outstanding finders even by modern SLR standards) will find nothing to complain about. I have heard it said that the Contax G1 and G2 have slightly darker finders than Leica M cameras. I have never tried them so cannot comment, but my guess would be that if this is true, then that would probably be not too bad a comparison.
I really think these critics who write camera articles are looking for a reason to reject the camera as it is not a run of the mill offering and many reviewers seem to just follow the herd. If one says it then they all say it. The name says it all - critic so they feel they must criticise.
I had worried about the viewfinder "issue" but in fact I have found it not to be a problem at all. I think if stop to consider it and I had my preferences it would be slightly larger and yes, slightly brighter but the truth is that when I am actually shooting with the camera it has not even impinged on my consciousness.
I look at it this way - if you have ever shot with a Leica 111a or a Canon IVSB and know what their viewfinders are like, well this camera is nothing like that. So anyone who shoots most classic rangefinder cameras (save for the M series which have outstanding finders even by modern SLR standards) will find nothing to complain about. I have heard it said that the Contax G1 and G2 have slightly darker finders than Leica M cameras. I have never tried them so cannot comment, but my guess would be that if this is true, then that would probably be not too bad a comparison.
I really think these critics who write camera articles are looking for a reason to reject the camera as it is not a run of the mill offering and many reviewers seem to just follow the herd. If one says it then they all say it. The name says it all - critic so they feel they must criticise.
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cnguyen
Established
Pan l1
Pan l1
Pete,
I have one of these L1s too and keeping it. You can use confirm focus when use 4/3rds adapter with all lenses. I put my Leica R lenses on it and get good results.
Pan l1
Pete,
I have one of these L1s too and keeping it. You can use confirm focus when use 4/3rds adapter with all lenses. I put my Leica R lenses on it and get good results.
peterm1
Veteran
cnguyen said:
Hi and thanks for this. Does focus confirm work with the viewfinder? (I don't really anticipate using the live view option much except perhaps when on a tripod.) The manual is a little vague about this issue- written I would surmise by a native Japanese speaker. At least I found this section to be a little confusing - perhaps its just me.
I had the same idea about R lenses. I do not own any but had read that they work well on this camera and can be had comparatively cheaply on eBay due to the drop in price of film cameras. I don't anticipate rushing out right away as I have a whole slew of Nikkor and Takumar lenses to try out first.
cnguyen
Established
Confirm AF works with the viewfinder and possibly live view too I haven't checked it. . You rotate the manual focusing ring till the green led lights up and thats it. I would buy R lenses quickly before the price goes up after Photokina 08 with the new R10 introduction. R lens prices are so low right now. Enjoy adapting manual lenses on your L1 !
peterm1
Veteran
cnguyen said:
Thanks for the advice. I will try the focus assist. I have a couple of adapters on order right now (M42 and Nikon) I will think about the Leica Rs there certainly some bargains on eBay at the moment.
saldun70
Trying to find range...
This has been a very interesting thread. I want to hold one now and have a look through that viewfinder. I guess finding one in a store is going to be the next challenge - as well as finding the money for one... and an RD1s... and an M8!
ywenz
Veteran
sal: Best Buy has them locally, at least the ones I've been to.
Picked on up before and looked thru the viewinder. Was not a fan... too small and and information bar was too cluttered. The tactile aperture ring and shutter speed knob was good however..
yeah for the design of the body, the kit lens + camera is pretty big. Don't know why they did it like this.
Picked on up before and looked thru the viewinder. Was not a fan... too small and and information bar was too cluttered. The tactile aperture ring and shutter speed knob was good however..
yeah for the design of the body, the kit lens + camera is pretty big. Don't know why they did it like this.
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kuzano
Veteran
ywenz said:
Best buy here (Oregon) as well. Monster lens... bigger than most anything I own.
kuzano
Veteran
peterm1 said:
Well, good point. Just like restaurant and movie critics, the word critic does mean to be critical. I think you have to wade past the harshness in most reviews and find out if the negative points affect your usage in any way. I have never not bought something as a function of the negatives in critiques and reviews. I have bought a lot of things based on the portions of the reviews that substantiate the things I am looking for in a product. I operated on the basis that reviewers and critics are paid primarily to find point of negative contention in products.