unixrevolution
Well-known
I've got a Kodak Medalist, sold to me by a friend. It's got a wonderfully sharp Ektar lens, a super accurate rangefinder and I love the results. However...
It's bulky.
It's heavy.
it's got no flash-sync.
It's terribly un-ergonomic.
I have to plan pretty hard to use it, as it takes 620 and I have to wind spools ahead of time.
I didn't do the smart thing and get it converted to 120 by Ken Ruth when it was in for service. I probably still wouldn't, because reasons. But if it even took 120 on the feed side, it would be much improved.
So, the crux of things are that I've had a Folder itch for a while. I thought maybe about getting a scale-focus 6x6, but the more I think about it, a 6x9 folding rangefinder may be the ticket, and might replace my Medalist. if it's sharp enough, and easy enough to use.
Does anyone know of 6x9 folding rangefinders that are not monstrously expensive (<$500), and would give me usability gains over my Medalist without losing the image quality? In the end, I'll deal with the Medalists's quirks to get the quality, but if that quality is available in a lighter, better travelling, more convenient package, I'd be inclined to take it.
It's bulky.
It's heavy.
it's got no flash-sync.
It's terribly un-ergonomic.
I have to plan pretty hard to use it, as it takes 620 and I have to wind spools ahead of time.
I didn't do the smart thing and get it converted to 120 by Ken Ruth when it was in for service. I probably still wouldn't, because reasons. But if it even took 120 on the feed side, it would be much improved.
So, the crux of things are that I've had a Folder itch for a while. I thought maybe about getting a scale-focus 6x6, but the more I think about it, a 6x9 folding rangefinder may be the ticket, and might replace my Medalist. if it's sharp enough, and easy enough to use.
Does anyone know of 6x9 folding rangefinders that are not monstrously expensive (<$500), and would give me usability gains over my Medalist without losing the image quality? In the end, I'll deal with the Medalists's quirks to get the quality, but if that quality is available in a lighter, better travelling, more convenient package, I'd be inclined to take it.
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citizen99
Well-known
For that price you should be able to get a Bessa Rangefinder (the 'ancestor' of the Bessa II). Plenty on ebay today world-wide - here's a link to one with the Skopar (an excellent Tessar-class) lens.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOIGTLAND...903818?hash=item1a199d870a:g:lE4AAOSwRgJXjCBo
They are also to be found with the
Helomar lens (3-glass anastigmat) ...
and the
Heliar which has 5 glass elements - just like the Ektar in your Medalist.
I have both one of these and a Medalist - I find the images that each produces similarly satisfying.
The viewfinder and coupled rangefinder windows are separate, and smaller than you're used to with the medalist
.
There are the usual folder issues to look out for, plus that the lens standard hasn't been bent by people trying to close it without pressing down the release tab.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOIGTLAND...903818?hash=item1a199d870a:g:lE4AAOSwRgJXjCBo
They are also to be found with the
Helomar lens (3-glass anastigmat) ...
and the
Heliar which has 5 glass elements - just like the Ektar in your Medalist.
I have both one of these and a Medalist - I find the images that each produces similarly satisfying.
The viewfinder and coupled rangefinder windows are separate, and smaller than you're used to with the medalist
.There are the usual folder issues to look out for, plus that the lens standard hasn't been bent by people trying to close it without pressing down the release tab.
Fixcinater
Never enough smoky peat
How about a Zeiss Super Ikonta B AKA 532/16?
6x6, built in coupled RF, folds up nicely, nice lens (some say the Tessar shouldn't be f/2.8, I say it is what it is and it works fine), available in your budget.
6x6, built in coupled RF, folds up nicely, nice lens (some say the Tessar shouldn't be f/2.8, I say it is what it is and it works fine), available in your budget.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Moskva 5 isnt that bad and they are pretty cheap. Industar lenses are pretty sharp.
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Where's me popcorn?
Mamiya Six?
Mamiya Six?
vitaly66
slightly tilted
Just about any other medium format camera will give you better usability.
Practically speaking, no other medium format camera will give you the deliciously sweet and distinctive image qualities of the Medalist Ektar.
One possible exception: the 105mm f/3.7 Ektar on a 2x3 Graflex. It's an overall bigger package than the Medalist, but I find it much more enjoyable in use than the Medalist.
Practically speaking, no other medium format camera will give you the deliciously sweet and distinctive image qualities of the Medalist Ektar.
One possible exception: the 105mm f/3.7 Ektar on a 2x3 Graflex. It's an overall bigger package than the Medalist, but I find it much more enjoyable in use than the Medalist.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Or put the Ektar (or any number of other characterful lenses, including for example a 105/4.5 Voigtländer Apo-Lanthar) on a decent camera, a "baby" Linhof.
Cheers,
R.
citizen99
Well-known
To elaborate on what I said above - the words 'creamy' and 'precise' come to mind when I think of the images from both of these lenses. In the context of using colour film, which is what I do.
unixrevolution
Well-known
For that price you should be able to get a Bessa Rangefinder (the 'ancestor' of the Bessa II). Plenty on ebay today world-wide - here's a link to one with the Skopar (an excellent Tessar-class) lens.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOIGTLAND...903818?hash=item1a199d870a:g:lE4AAOSwRgJXjCBo
They are also to be found with the
Helomar lens (3-glass anastigmat) ...
and the
Heliar which has 5 glass elements - just like the Ektar in your Medalist.
I have both one of these and a Medalist - I find the images that each produces similarly satisfying.
The viewfinder and coupled rangefinder windows are separate, and smaller than you're used to with the medalist
There are the usual folder issues to look out for, plus that the lens standard hasn't been bent by people trying to close it without pressing down the release tab.
Thank you for the suggestion!
Fails requriement: 6x9. But I'm not completely turned off by the idea of a 6x6. Practically speaking, I have a couple TLRs that shoot the hip little square.
I was thinking of one. They are cheap enough to be worth a try, I'd say
Popcorn's in the next room. Help yourself!
The six fails on the 6x9 requirement, but if I sell my Medalist + spools I could pick one up along with a Moskva and have both
Truth.
The Baby Graflex thing is cool, but even bulkier than the medalist is. I'm looking for something more compact. Think cargo-pocket, or small camera bag. Hip pocket, if you buy your pants baggy.
A decent suggestion, but again there's the bulk and size. I cited wanting to go lighter and smaller than the Medalist. Also, the Baby Linhofs, as nice as they are, are too much money for me.
Thanks all, for your input so far.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
I'll throw it out there, knowing what the objections will be: Fuji GW690.
No cargo pants pocket. But hangs from the shoulder lightly. Can live in a messenger bag or knapsack easily. No retro cred, but it will simply work. Most of the other options will have limits or maintenance issues.
No cargo pants pocket. But hangs from the shoulder lightly. Can live in a messenger bag or knapsack easily. No retro cred, but it will simply work. Most of the other options will have limits or maintenance issues.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Sure. I'm just not sure that your expectations/hopes can actually be met.
Cheers,
R.
johnnyrod
More cameras than shots
Sorry I got the 6x6 and 6x9 confused in the OP. Super Ikonta C is 6x9 aka 531/2, also there was the Mess Ikonta 524/2 though it is much more rare than the 6x6 version. Novar lens works just fine though uncoupled RF. Ercona also did a 6x9 as it is basically also a Super Ikonta, as is the Moskva (V?). I believe all of these have separate RF windows however.
Kenj8246
Well-known
Along those lines, I find that screwing an off-camera flash bracket to the Medalist negates most of the handling problems. Doesn't help with any of the rest, sorry to say. I have several 6X9 folders and a Fuji 690 and none of them give me the quality of the Medalist. My two cents.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No, no, no. It makes it smaller and lighter. Well, it feels that way, anyway. Shame about 620...Along those lines, I find that screwing an off-camera flash bracket to the Medalist negates most of the handling problems. Doesn't help with any of the rest, sorry to say. I have several 6X9 folders and a Fuji 690 and none of them give me the quality of the Medalist. My two cents.
Cheers,
R.
Moto-Uno
Moto-Uno
^ I've owned 3 ( yes three ) Mockba 5's and really enjoyed their folded size ,(easy to stuff in a saddlebag) but without a doubt they will not match your Medalist , which I own one of. Thank heavens for large hands when I go out with the Medalist . And with practice rerolling 120 to 620 is a breeze, if you use the resized spools that come wrapped with film from Blue Moon . Peter
unixrevolution
Well-known
If they can't, I keep the Medalist. At least I know it has the images I'm after.
I have been very tempted by the "Texas Leicas" in both fixed and interchangeable lens form, but for different reasons than the whole notion of a 6x9 folder.
I am fine with separate rangefinding and viewing windows, though the over-under arrangement of the Medalist is very good, and combined would be oh-so-perfect. Scale focus or uncoupled is sub-optimal, as part of what I like about a large rangefinder is fast handling for shots of things that won't wait for me.
Along those lines, I find that screwing an off-camera flash bracket to the Medalist negates most of the handling problems. Doesn't help with any of the rest, sorry to say. I have several 6X9 folders and a Fuji 690 and none of them give me the quality of the Medalist. My two cents.
That is just a darn useful post. Thank you for the input, and I do have a Vivitar side-pistol-grip think that would make it handle better for sure. Can't remember if I've actually tried that.
A handle can make a camera an awful lot easier to hold, and the 620 is unfortunately more limiting than it seems lke it should be.
That is also very good to know. I love the *idea* of a 6x9 folder but I am increasingly thinking from commentary that the idea is way better than the reality.
As for the 620, I want to state that I can, and have, rerolled 620 from 120, dozens of times by now. The limitation 620 puts on me is, for example, knowing I'm going somewhere, and wondering how I'll want to split film between the Medalist and another Medium Format camera (My Pentax 6x7, my Mamiya C330, Yashica 635, scale focus box camera stuff, etc) before I even get there. And having to plan ahead and remember to reroll the film before I take it out on a trek is also a pain. In short, it's a convenience thing, as well as a planning thing, more than it's a "I don't like rerolling film" thing.
I have a couple options rolling in my head now. Mostly, looking at Mamiya Sixes and thinking that would be a nice complement to the Medalist, rather than a replacement for it.
Addendum: Tried my grip thingy on the Medalist, and honestly, it just made it worse.
I know the Medalist is very compact for a camera with a negative of the size it makes. I'm sorry if wanting something smaller is somehow not done, but a nice, medium format camera I can slip into a cargo pocket is something I find a lot of appeal in.
shawn
Veteran
As far as 620 goes it looks like the Medalist should be able to used clipped 120 rolls on the supply side with very minor changes. I think removing some of the metal tab on the bottom of the feed chamber would do it. From there you would just use nail clippers on the 120 rolls to trim them down. You would still need 620 reels for the take up side though.
I shoot my Kodak Monitor with clipped 120 rolls and 620 take up reels. Works fine and lets me use the film in whatever camera I want without having to worry about it ahead of time.
Shawn
I shoot my Kodak Monitor with clipped 120 rolls and 620 take up reels. Works fine and lets me use the film in whatever camera I want without having to worry about it ahead of time.
Shawn
02Pilot
Malcontent
While this is often the case, it doesn't have to be. By it's nature, a folder is more likely to suffer misalignment issues than other types of cameras, and in many instances light leaks as well. Some designs are more robust than others.
I have two 6x9 folders - a very heavily used pre-war Super Ikonta C and an almost new post-war Bessa II - and both required some adjustment in addition to the usual CLA when I got them. Of the two, it was actually the Bessa needed more tweaking to get it right. Both are now reliable cameras capable of producing high-quality photos.
There's nothing wrong with giving it a shot. Just manage your expectations and accept the particular importance of the condition of the camera to the results.
citizen99
Well-known
^ +1 .
And, you don't have to plan for battery availability/charge .
And, you don't have to plan for battery availability/charge
.newfilm
Well-known
If you don't mind some tinkering and adjusting a moskva 5 is not bad (I have to go through 3 sample to get 1 that the lens and rangefinder assembly is not screwing around by a previous owner, yes they all are advertised as "minty/like new/perfect"), after shimming the shutter assembly + light seal around the red window (yes, around the red window, this sucker leak real bad), the final result in the image it capture is pretty nice.
In the department of ergonomic it actually pretty pain to hold a moskva 5, I give it 0 point for ergonomic.
my 6x9 journey at the end I kept two camera:
1) Agfa Billy Record II (super light, aluminium construct I think)
2) Moskva 5 (I want that rangefinder coupling, pretty heavy all in all)
Image quality wise, I can't tell which one produce better (shaper/contrast/etc), both are equally fine by my eyes, maybe the 6x9 negative size does gives a lot of room compare with tiny 35mm size.