"This could be the year that film goes away for Kodak!" ... [quote: George Conboy]

MISH said:
I only live 100 miles away can I be your friend?
(and where do you get the best deal on that kind of quantity)
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Friend? Sure! The more the merrier.

The film I bought last month was from a friend of a friend - less than half price and expires this year. He wanted to throw the freezer into the deal but I declined.

This last purchase was a knee-jerk reaction to all the speculation coupled with the impending price increases. I probably should have posted in this Freestyle thread as this is the one that got me thinking. Wife always warns me not to think anymore as it invariably costs us money :D
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Damaso,

Surely you should know by now that talking to senior, enthusiastic and knowledgeable people at Kodak is worthless next to rumours spread at second hand by pension salesmen.

Cheers,

R.
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You do seem determined to pin a label with a decidedly derogatory overtone on this guy Roger!

Have you had a bad experience in the field of expertise he represents ... or are you just generalising in retaliation at what you seem to regard as his worthless unwarranted opinion?

:D
 
Keith said:
You do seem determined to pin a label with a decidedly derogatory overtone on this guy Roger!

Have you had a bad experience in the field of expertise he represents ... or are you just generalising in retaliation at what you seem to regard as his worthless unwarranted opinion?

:D
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Dear Keith,

Put it this way: I've never met anyone who's had a good experience; I know some people who've had REALLY bad ones; and of those financial advisers I have met personally, I have to say that if they were the stock-market whizzes they pretend to be, they wouldn't need to earn a living by dispensing retail financial advice to their victims -- sorry, clients.

This isn't just my opinion. I have a few friends (and even relatives) who are heavily involved in finance; some of them are multi-millionaires; and to quote one of them, "If you can earn the sort of money where financial advisers want to give you advice, you'll invariably do better by reading the Financial Times and investing on your own account."

In other words, I have less than no faith in his whole field of expertise, regardless of his personal ability in it, and as a result, I find it hard to believe that he's a great deal better informed when he strays outside it. Some have a generally low opinion of estate agents; some, of used car salesmen; and I, of 'financial advisers'.

Cheers,

R.
 
In all fairness, getting your information from the company itself is not always the best way to get the facts either. A company will never admit it's in trouble until it absolutely has to. I am not trying to make any statements about Kodak, people who've talked to them, etc. Just saying.
 
v_roma said:
In all fairness, getting your information from the company itself is not always the best way to get the facts either. A company will never admit it's in trouble until it absolutely has to. I am not trying to make any statements about Kodak, people who've talked to them, etc. Just saying.
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Undoubtedly true. There's often a difference between listening to the Party Line from the PR flacks hired by company, and talking to several people who actually work for the company at the sharp end, but depending on the circumstances, the differences can range from negligible to being exact opposites.

Cheers,

R.
 
"
Yes, film sales are trending downward but Kodak is still invested in making these products and has said so publicly. They have also said they will keep making it as long as people keep buying it so that is a clear challenge to us as users of film. Until I hear otherwise (and I certainly know people who would give me a heads up, if for no other reason than to stock up on the films I like) I'm not going to get myself all worked up over some vague and unsubstantiated rumors.
"

Damaso, don't know why your post doesn't appear in quoted reply automatically, hence the weird quote up there.

I don't think the enthusiastic and firm commitment to film is lacking inside Kodak, especially the closer we get to the actual group that is involved in the manufacturing plants.

It's the impact of the external pressure (economic, environmental, governmental, marketing, whatever) that can sway the decision made by top executives. These top executives don't work at the facilities and/or getting involved and attached to the products -- if they do, they are not doing what they are hired for, which is to make top-down decisions.

But if they are not given ample data/evidence that things are going to pick up by their own staff, they will give more weighs to the George Conboys of the world.

So I think it would be an interesting question to pose to the people you meet in the Kodak tour: What have they done to make sure that the message from inside the company itself is to remain committed to film. And what other plans are there?
 
shadowfox said:
"
Yes, film sales are trending downward but Kodak is still invested in making these products and has said so publicly. They have also said they will keep making it as long as people keep buying it so that is a clear challenge to us as users of film. Until I hear otherwise (and I certainly know people who would give me a heads up, if for no other reason than to stock up on the films I like) I'm not going to get myself all worked up over some vague and unsubstantiated rumors.
"

Damaso, don't know why your post doesn't appear in quoted reply automatically, hence the weird quote up there.

I don't think the enthusiastic and firm commitment to film is lacking inside Kodak, especially the closer we get to the actual group that is involved in the manufacturing plants.

It's the impact of the external pressure (economic, environmental, governmental, marketing, whatever) that can sway the decision made by top executives. These top executives don't work at the facilities and/or getting involved and attached to the products -- if they do, they are not doing what they are hired for, which is to make top-down decisions.

But if they are not given ample data/evidence that things are going to pick up by their own staff, they will give more weighs to the George Conboys of the world.

So I think it would be an interesting question to pose to the people you meet in the Kodak tour: What have they done to make sure that the message from inside the company itself is to remain committed to film. And what other plans are there?
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Did they mention how many people though ... if ten years from now there's only you and me left shooting film will they stand by that committment? :D
 
I think the bottom line is ... "So what!"

If film (generally) does go belly up some time in the next ten years it won't mean the end of photography ... just the end of of an era!

"Do your worst Kodak ... we're ready!" :p
 
Keith said:
I think the bottom line is ... "So what!"

If film (generally) does go belly up some time in the next ten years it won't mean the end of photography ... just the end of of an era!

"Do your worst Kodak ... we're ready!" :p
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I agree with the "So what" sentiment when it comes to Kodak.

But if film do disappear totally one day, and digital is all we have left, that is sad. Losing a century-old process and refinements for the sake of convenience and one-sided definition of "Better Image Quality."

Oh well, I'm going to buy me some film.
 
shadowfox said:
I agree with the "So what" sentiment when it comes to Kodak.

But if film do disappear totally one day, and digital is all we have left, that is sad. Losing a century-old process and refinements for the sake of convenience and one-sided definition of "Better Image Quality."

Oh well, I'm going to buy me some film.
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I wouldn't begin to worry, until you see all color films go away. Even then, b+w is much easier to make, and there will be small groups producing b+w for a long time. The fine art photo market still uses a lot of b+w materials. I've noticed a large number of fine art photographers are using color 8 x 10 film.

There are still folks making quality 8 x 10 cameras.. no film = no cameras.. so I wouldn't worry.
http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/810.html
 
I was just in Rochester and got to tour the film manufacturing plant and talk with the employees that make film. It's not going away. What struck me was how very proud they are of what they do and how much love and care goes into it. BTW they work 24/7/365 so I guess there is still some demand out there...
 
As far as I know there are not public tours. It took quite a bit to get me in there and I got to put on a clean suit! They are very proud of what they do there and no, they would not be the last to know. They would in fact be among the first to know if something were happening to film since they would also be the people who would shut down production...

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ChrisPlatt said:
Wow, I'd love to see that. Are there regular tours, open to the public?

Chris
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A good way to start mass sales of film is to start rumor about it going away. All the film that would be bought up and horded away in freezers would probably spike sales. However, on the other hand, killing off 120 when there's a new medium format Fuji about to come out wouldn't suprise me. Shooting the horse as you're rolling out a new surry isn't uncommon now a days.
 
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