This picture makes me cry!

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doubs43 said:
Joe, IMO it is photo-journalism even if, as you suspect, it's a staged shot. It was taken to make a statement which is what photo-journalism is all about. I'm willing to bet that more journalistic pictures are staged or arranged than most would believe. I'm cynical enough to believe that Photographers will manipulate events to illustrate whatever it is that they wish to show.

Walker
I hope the moderators will let this thread stand as long as it does not degenerate into any type of name calling, etc. To say that a lot of journalistic photos are staged is ludicrous. I have worked for several newspapers over the years and the original photo looked strange to me.
 
RDW said:
For some strange reason, it seems that people here in the USA have a problem discussing in a normal, civilized fashion, the politics of the day. We have all become so friggin' homogenized, so terribly bland and politically correct that all civil discourse is looked upon with disdain.

If you or anyone else desires political combat then may I suggest going here: http://mb20.scout.com/faccboardsfrm1

"The Town Square" will give you all the politics and discussion - both civilized and in your face - that you may desire. I go there often for the political arguments but I come here for quiet, peaceful and helpful discussion about photography.

Walker
 
RDW said:
I can find photos like these on probably thousands of websites from many different countries. I am a voter and trust me, I have a clue as to the reality of war. Obviously my interpretation of this as a political statement was wrong. That makes me wonder even more about your intentions on posting the photos.


The title of the thread is "This makes me cry" The picture I added does make me want to cry so I added it. Yes it is a provocative image, Yes it is a political image, Yes it is a anti-war image. It could be used for many things but most importantly it is a real image and shows the darkside of imagery and reality.
As far as disturbing images go Ive seen some much worse than this but they are mostly homocidal pedophilia crime scene pictures which in any other country would get you thrown in prison and locked away forever but in Thailand and Cambodia are put on the front page of the newspaper and in semi-porn crime magazines.
 
Brian,

I edited your post for the pictures and provided suggestions for an alternate way of displaying them.
 
doubs43 said:
If you or anyone else desires political combat then may I suggest going here: http://mb20.scout.com/faccboardsfrm1

"The Town Square" will give you all the politics and discussion - both civilized and in your face - that you may desire. I go there often for the political arguments but I come here for quiet, peaceful and helpful discussion about photography.

Walker
This is not about political combat. It is about the emotions that two disturbing sets of photos bring out in people.
 
Socke said:
A friend just led me to the gallery of Steve McCurry and I opened the southamerica album first.

This is a picture which not only moves me but makes me cry in despair.

see here

No matter what the circumstances of this photo were it is obviously which story it shall tell us: It's a reminder of many economically devasted Latin American countries, where 8yo without parents or a home deal with drugs and use real guns to defend themselves or kill rivals in business, and where shop owners hire grown up killers to "get rid" of the homeless kids from the favelas, which raid their shops almost daily.

The weapon is a plastic toy as far as I can see and how manipulative it ever may be, considering what the reality is it cannot exaggerate anything.

bertram
 
Bertram2 said:
No matter what the circumstances of this photo were it is obviously which story it shall tell us: It's a reminder of many economically devasted Latin American countries, where 8yo without parents or a home deal with drugs and use real guns to defend themselves or kill rivals in business, and where shop owners hire grown up killers to "get rid" of the homeless kids from the favelas, which raid their shops almost daily.

The weapon is a plastic toy as far as I can see and how manipulative it ever may be, considering what the reality is it cannot exaggerate anything.

bertram
Thanks for shedding some light on the situation. We do indeed live in trying times.
 
I find Bryan's attachments very real and much more disturbing that McCurry's photo. Keep in mind that the end result that is depicted in Bryan's submission could happen as a result of a drive by shooting in a civilized part of the world or in an actual war zone. That brings me to tears more readily.

Bob
 
Jorge Torralba said:
Brian,

I edited your post for the pictures and provided suggestions for an alternate way of displaying them.


Thanx Jorge, I just went back to take them down and saw that you had already editied them. I will provide a link or just e-mail them if anyone is interested. I never intended to offend or shock or insult the forum. Thanx for being cool about it Jorge.


Phu Yai Web Jai Yen MakMak / The Big Cheese of the forum has a very very Cool Heart.
 
RDW said:
I hope the moderators will let this thread stand as long as it does not degenerate into any type of name calling, etc. To say that a lot of journalistic photos are staged is ludicrous. I have worked for several newspapers over the years and the original photo looked strange to me.

To believe that Photographers are above manipulation or staging a shot is naive. Look through any newspaper and see how many pictures are OBVIOUSLY posed or staged. Also, I didn't say "a lot"....... I said "more than most might believe" which I believe to be accurate.

Anyway, I've stated my opinions and I'll bow out now.

Walker
 
doubs43 said:
Joe, IMO it is photo-journalism even if, as you suspect, it's a staged shot. It was taken to make a statement which is what photo-journalism is all about. I'm willing to bet that more journalistic pictures are staged or arranged than most would believe. I'm cynical enough to believe that Photographers will manipulate events to illustrate whatever it is that they wish to show.

Walker
actually, I agree with you, Walker.. still, it's my opinion that publishing photos taken in one context while the photographer knows (or intends) that the viewer take in another context entirely is dishonest, or at least disingenuous.. I'm sure it happens all the time, but that doesn't make it right

having said that, I'll state once again that it's merely my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to agree
 
RDW said:
Raid, does this not look strange to you? No trying to stir up anything here but it would be nice to know the real story behind the photo.


Yes, this is an unusual photo, and I hope that nobody's children will ever be out into such a situation. I have no clue whether it is staged or genuine, and in either case the child should not have access to a gun or anything that looks like a gun.
 
bmattock said:
My opinion of some people here has changed and that change is permanent. Good night, folks.


It is difficult to fully understand the personalities of people posting online, and I hope that you will not get too annoyed by some postings here. I try to be relatively diplomatic, but sometimes things can go a different direction of what was intended by a posting.
 
doubs43 said:
To believe that Photographers are above manipulation or staging a shot is naive. Look through any newspaper and see how many pictures are OBVIOUSLY posed or staged. Also, I didn't say "a lot"....... I said "more than most might believe" which I believe to be accurate.

Anyway, I've stated my opinions and I'll bow out now.

Walker
Walker, we will just agree to disagree. A big part of any photojournalist's job, and especially the newspaper guys is the meet and greet shots, staged and posed shots for the daily metro section, etc. But most hard core, spot news shots are not posed and if they are, they are not being faithful to the very core of photojournalism- to simply show what happened- to report the news as it happens photographically.
 
JoeFriday said:
actually, I agree with you, Walker.. still, it's my opinion that publishing photos taken in one context while the photographer knows (or intends) that the viewer take in another context entirely is dishonest, or at least disingenuous.. I'm sure it happens all the time, but that doesn't make it right

having said that, I'll state once again that it's merely my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to agree

OK, I'll make a few more comments in spite of my best intentions. 😀

Brett, I couldn't agree more; it IS dishonest but it happens. It's also dishonest when specific pictures that change the "message" of a story are included or left out depending upon what the reader or viewer is supposed to come away with. "Slanting" a story is nothing new for writers or photographers as I'm sure you already know.

Walker
 
RDW said:
Walker, we will just agree to disagree. A big part of any photojournalist's job, and especially the newspaper guys is the meet and greet shots, staged and posed shots for the daily metro section, etc. But most hard core, spot news shots are not posed and if they are, they are not being faithful to the very core of photojournalism- to simply show what happened- to report the news as it happens photographically.

Read my reply to Brett. I've been reading newspapers for over 50 years and my distrust of the writers grows every year. They slant their stories according to their personal beliefs which makes them unreliable. Only be reading numerous sources can one gain a feel for the actual "facts".

The Photographers, OTOH, may well take events as they unfold but if they are sympathetic to a cause, they may take only those shots that favor their beliefs. There are times when an event can be manipulated as rally organizers try to do all the time. How does a Photographer then take pictures of the "facts" if everything is orchestrated? If the Photographer sympathizes with one side or the other, what prevents them from cooperating with "their" side?

Even if the Photographer does their best to present an even, unbiased set of prints, they are still at the mercy of the Editor who may have an agenda of their own.

Possibly the best Photographer who ever took a picture for the "Baltimore Sun" was A. Aubrey Bodine. Some of his work was photo-journalism at it's finest while at other times he did single shots not intended to be anything other than a stand-alone image. He was a superb Photographer and often waited long periods of time for exactly the right light to take his picture. In some instances he waited months or took seasonal images of the same scene. That's manipulation of a sort but not what I'm talking about. There were times, though, that he was known to have had a shed or other structure removed because it interferred with his picture. He manipulated his image by removing obstructions. Not 100% "honest" but it no doubt improved his pictures.

Bodine, of course, doesn't illustrate my point as well as I'd like but it's the same principle. BTW, I have great admiration and respect for Bodine's work. Anyone who hasn't seen his images should look for them. They are superb.

Most Photo-journalists will report faithfully what they see. But if they missed a shot and can stage it after the fact, most would IMO. That's being practical if they don't change the context or what actually happened.

Anyway, the world ain't perfect and neither are all Photographers. 😉

Walker
 
All selection (scene, pose, lighting, etc.) is editorial. But editorial does not mean wrong or dishonest. It is a POV. Where one draws the line between selection to make a point and "bias" is highly personal and subjective.

Earl
 
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