Thoughts on 10yo frozen Tri-X

[philipus]

Hi everyone

I have the opportunity to buy my favourite bw film, Tri-X, in quite a large quantity. The potential problem is that it is 10 years out of date. However, the seller, whom I trust, has stored it frozen at -16C.

I have never bought out of date film before. Would such old film, though frozen, be problematic in terms of image quality or any other respect?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts
Philip

 

[sevo]

If it was continuously deep frozen ever since it was fresh, it should be (almost) perfectly good. Continuous is the word, though - frequent thawing and re-freezing will cause ice crystal formation which may damage the emulsion and will dry up the film to the point where it will suffer cracking or static discharge damage in the camera.

If you can trust the seller, why can't he give you a sample roll for a test?

 

[philipus]

Thank you sevo. I understand. I will check with the seller if I can try one before buying more. It's a perfectly fair request given the age of the film.

cheers
philip

 

[Vobluda]

I do believe that if the BW is frozen fresh that it has unlimited shelf life.

 

[sevo]

I do believe that if the BW is frozen fresh that it has unlimited shelf life.

Not quite unlimited, but significantly extended, at least for low to mid speed films which aren't that subject to environmental radiation damage. It is hard to tell where the limits are, but they certainly are upward of twenty years. There is not enough deep frozen film that is older to tell - before the seventies household deep freezers weren't widespread enough for experimental abuse by photographers. But eighties black and white film usually is still good if continuously frozen. Colour is another matter, as the individual layers will drift off into different directions, so that age effects that cause a modest contrast shift in black and white will create ugly shadow or highlight staining in colour...

 

[bonatto]

I would ask for a couple of rolls that you can shoot and develop before you commit.

 

[philipus]

Thanks for all the excellent thoughts on this. The slight problem is that it is bulk rolls, which is also why it is quite interesting price-wise. Here in Europe Tri-X bulk costs the same if not more than loose rolls (at least I haven't found bulk for less).

The seller who I believe is reliable does confirm that they have always been deepfrozen. So I think I'll go ahead with it, risky as it may seem.

The one thing I am a bit worried about is that the rolls will thaw during the 1 (but could be 2) day shipping. Any thoughts on that?

cheers and thanks again for your help
Philip

 

[willie_901]

Not quite unlimited, but significantly extended, at least for low to mid speed films which aren't that subject to environmental radiation damage. It is hard to tell where the limits are, but they certainly are upward of twenty years. There is not enough deep frozen film that is older to tell - before the seventies household deep freezers weren't widespread enough for experimental abuse by photographers. But eighties black and white film usually is still good if continuously frozen. Colour is another matter, as the individual layers will drift off into different directions, so that age effects that cause a modest contrast shift in black and white will create ugly shadow or highlight staining in colour...

Exactly. Film degradation is cause by two unrelated processes - chemical decomposition and fogging due to cosmic rays. The former is greatly attenuated by lowering temperature. Nothing reduces the latter.

Some claim the cosmic-ray fogging can be compensated by altering development technique. A series of test frames and thoughtful experimentation could be useful. I have read about the ice crystal damage scenario. But I have never seen any data that shows if these effects are real or how they manifest themselves.

 

[newtorf]

one or two days or maybe month out of freezer should be nothing to worry about.

enjoy your new film!

Thanks for all the excellent thoughts on this. The slight problem is that it is bulk rolls, which is also why it is quite interesting price-wise. Here in Europe Tri-X bulk costs the same if not more than loose rolls (at least I haven't found bulk for less).

The seller who I believe is reliable does confirm that they have always been deepfrozen. So I think I'll go ahead with it, risky as it may seem.

The one thing I am a bit worried about is that the rolls will thaw during the 1 (but could be 2) day shipping. Any thoughts on that?

cheers and thanks again for your help
Philip

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

The note on the cosmic radiation is a fact: I bought some NASA Aerocon film (70mm) that was stored deep in the mountain silos, although about twenty years old, they were perfect. The other batch of same film was stored in a freezer, like toe previous set but in a normal house in nevada, It showed bad fogging, maybe because of the fact it was near the nuclear test site.

 

[Vics]

May not be the same formulation as the Tri-X one buys fresh today. They re-formulated it a few years back, no?

 

[alienmeatsack]

The only issue I could see would be as mentioned above, if the film was frozen/defrosted a few times due to power outings or similar and got condensation or cracked. Otherwise, I think it's probably in great shape and worth buying.

Worst case, it's a little too aged for your tastes and you resell it to folks who like that sort of thing. Best case, you have a ton of great film to enjoy!

 

[Joe AC]

I just bought about 30 rolls of frozen Kodachrome 64 for $10.00. I guess I'll never know if it's any good.

Joe

 

[philipus]

The film arrived today, nice and cold and now lives in our freezer. I didn't know Tri-X bulk comes in little metal canisters. Nice touch.

Thanks very much to all who helped me with this.
cheers
philip

 

[newtorf]

Enjoy the films! I like Kodak's packaging of metal tin. It is sealed with tape and thus can prevent moisture from getting into it. I am always a little bit nervous about Ilford bulk films because they are not sealed.

The film arrived today, nice and cold and now lives in our freezer. I didn't know Tri-X bulk comes in little metal canisters. Nice touch.

Thanks very much to all who helped me with this.
cheers
philip

 

[helvetica]

I just bought about 30 rolls of frozen Kodachrome 64 for $10.00. I guess I'll never know if it's any good.

Joe

I was about to ask what your alchemy you where going to use to process it! A time machine back to 2010 would help. :/

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

I was about to ask what your alchemy you where going to use to process it! A time machine back to 2010 would help. :/

You can always process them in B&W developer, nice negatives...

 

[helvetica]

You can always process them in B&W developer, nice negatives...

You know... I had heard about that - what's the story? does it develop as if it where a traditional silver based B&W negative?

 

[helvetica]

I see - you get funky blue tinted negatives - how strange! I assume there's no practical way to do the traditional Kodachrome development due to the fact that the pigment is bound in the dev stage, not the manufacturing stage - correct?

 

[Highway 61]

I assume there's no practical way to do the traditional Kodachrome development due to the fact that the pigment is bound in the dev stage, not the manufacturing stage - correct?

Correct, yes.