Thoughts on 35mm lenses for M?

oscroft

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With my main focal lengths, I like to have several examples with different characteristics.

To that end, my main 50s are a newest-version Elmar-M, a CV 50/2.5, and an uncoated Summitar (with a number of FSU 50s for some extra variety). The Elmar and the CV are amazingly sharp, with the Elmar having very high contrast, excessively so for bright conditions but excellent in overcast UK lighting, and the CV having contrast/tonality more suited to the tropical lighting that I am often shooting in. The Summitar, by comparison, in the right lighting produces beautiful mid-tones (with much lower contrast at the highlight/shadow ends of the scale) - it has that older look about it. So all told, I think they make a nicely complementing trio.

But my 35s are different. I've recently been comparing the three that I have - a CV 35/2.5, a goggled Sumaron 35/2.8 (from 1959 going by the s/n) and a 1984 J-12. I expected quite different characters from the three, but the results are surprisingly similar. All have similar contrast and sharpness (with the J-12 having poorer sharpness fully open, but doing very well when stopped down). The most obvious difference between the three being that the J-12 has noticeable pincushion distortion - though I haven't tested it enough to know how stopping down affects that.

The big surprise was the Summaron. I was half-expecting something of an older look from it, but I can't really distinguish it from a modern lens (which says quite a lot about the quality of Leitz lenses in 1959, I guess).

So, to my point... I think I'd like to have a 35 that has an older look to its images - the subtle mid-tone "glow" that people talk about, and which I get from the Summitar 50. Does anyone know of any 35s that have that kind of look? It would have to be something relatively inexpensive (£150 to £200 ish - $300 to $400 - would be about my limit, though I'd love to hear of anything cheaper). Anything in M or crew mount would be fine.

(It would also be nice to think I could get an older-looking 28 to complement my CV 28/3.5 - which I think is probably the closest I have to a "perfect" lens - but with the exception of weirdies like f/6.3 lenses, RF 28s seems to be modern phenomenon)

Thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Hi Alan,

generally I find that people over-emphasize signature differences in wide angles (other than distortion, and bokeh), at f2.8 and slower. A 50 or longer will always be easier to identify, IMO.

To get more mellow mid-tones, you might want to look for a faster lens with a little more flare wide open. For instance the Canon 35/1.8 might be a good choice. Or a v1 Summicron.

Your Jupiter might need some collimation adjustment as it is coming from the FSU standard.

Roland.
 
You could try an older f3.5 Summaron, or an even older 35mm Elmar. In vintage 28mm, Canon made f2.8 and f3.5 lenses.
 
There is (or was-may be sold) Canon 35/1.8 in the classifieds now.

Don't overlook the Konica 35/2.0 UC-Hexanon LTM lens. Thoroughly modern, small and well built, a "look" all it's own.
 
The thing I've noticed with 35s is that a modern one will give a 3D type of look, the way the eye and brain perceive distances, while the older ones give flatter looks. It's a matter of preference.
 
The jupiter 12 is nice but not usable on the m6, also the lens handling is akward as the rear part of the lens protrudes a lot. The canons are a good choices but you have to give up closer than one meter shots. A summicron is another choice and I wouldn't unconsider shooting a classic thread mount summaron 3.5 as the looks of the shot are charming.
 
Hi Folks,

Thanks for the thoughts so far. With it being a bit experimental and with my budget being low (and not looking for my main 35mm lens - I'm happy with the CV 35/2.5 for that), lenses like an Ultron or Summicron are pretty much out of the question.

And it does seem as if there is less signature difference between different wides than there is with 50s - maybe it's to do with wide lens formulae generally being considerably more modern than 50s? (Are there are any currently-used wide lens designs that can trace their ancestry back to around 1900?)

Thinking about my J-12 - I may have described it unkindly, because I generally get very sharp results from it. (Oh, and it works fine on my M6 as long as I can manage without the meter - and on the M2 that obviously isn't a problem). But it's not what I'm looking for because, good though it is, it doesn't have that old dreamy mid-tone look about it (and the pincushion distortion, while not that bad, is bit annoying when there are buildings at the edges of the frame). I probably need to shoot it a bit more though - with more colour shots (I've mostly only used it for b&w).

It's beginning to sound like a Canon lens should be on the shortlist (I see the one in the Classifieds already has a PM out on it - but I'm not in a position to buy right now anyway) - I'm not really bothered if they don't focus closer than 1m, because I almost never do anything that close (I'd use an SLR for that kind of work).

An old screw-thread Summaron f/3.5 definitely sounds like a good candidate too (or perhaps even an Elmar).

I also hadn't realised that Canon did some 28s - I guess they don't show up all that often.

Thanks for the info and suggestions - it's all very welcome 🙂
 
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I tried J-12. I find that this produce a lot of grey values (low contrast lens). Digital sensor is more sensitive to highlights compared to film so low contrast lenses as j-12 suits fine for rd1.

of course for ergonomic reason, j12 is not great. That's why I use 35lux preasph instead which is spectacular at its own way.

Why not raise price limit and try 35 cron IV "bokeh king" and see if this can handle midtones nicely when film is developed for low contrast.

how'd you like cv35mm 2.5? I thought it was enough good choice for you. so as other said, 35 1.7 might good to consider. Canon is low contrast lens too.
 
I tried J-12. I find that this produce a lot of grey values (low contrast lens). Digital sensor is more sensitive to highlights compared to film so low contrast lenses as j-12 suits fine for rd1
That's interesting - I get very similar contrast from my J-12 to my CV and Summaron 35s. Is yours by any chance an older one? (Mine's a 1984 black one).

Why not raise price limit and try 35 cron IV
Because I can't afford (and don't want) to spend that kind of money.

how'd you like cv35mm 2.5? I thought it was enough good choice for you.
I like it a lot - it's my no 1 35mm lens. But what I'm looking for now, for more occasional use, is something with an "older" signature - the way my CV 50/2.5 is my number 1 50mm lens, but I love the look of the Summitar for occasional use.

so as other said, 35 1.7 might good to consider
And it's still too expensive for me, no matter how many people suggest it 😉
 
Hi Folks,

I've been thinking on this a bit more, and I think I can be a bit more specific about what I want. I'd love a 35 that might give me something approaching the subtle tonality I get from my old uncoated Summitar 50/2.

Does such a lens exist?
 
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