david3558
leicaboss
As the title states, could you all help me out? I'm thinking about trading my like new chrome MP for an M7 (haven't started looking at people or offers, but I'm sure there will be cash from their end of course). Can you help me understand some benefits of both?
I know the MP is mechanical obviously and I can run the shutter speeds regardless of whether or not the metering battery is alive or not. However, besides the AE are there other good things about the M7? Should I be super concerned that it is not as easily repairable as the MP?
The way I look at it is that both cameras "get the job done", but the M7 might be more flexible in the sense that it has AE for those times when you're just feeling lazy. However, am I right in saying that the MP is constructed to a higher quality standard?
Anyways, some overall input for me would be great - I just figured the cash difference might go a long way for a student like me (glass, maybe other cameras, etc).
I know the MP is mechanical obviously and I can run the shutter speeds regardless of whether or not the metering battery is alive or not. However, besides the AE are there other good things about the M7? Should I be super concerned that it is not as easily repairable as the MP?
The way I look at it is that both cameras "get the job done", but the M7 might be more flexible in the sense that it has AE for those times when you're just feeling lazy. However, am I right in saying that the MP is constructed to a higher quality standard?
Anyways, some overall input for me would be great - I just figured the cash difference might go a long way for a student like me (glass, maybe other cameras, etc).
maddoc
... likes film again.
MP and M7 are both manufactured to the same "quality standards" as every other camera made by Nikon or Canon these days. "Leica build quality" is a myth from long times ago until the M5.
That said, both cameras do the job, the M7 depends on batteries except for the 1/125s and 1/60s, but has AE up to 32s, a much better shutter speed control and flash possibilities. The MP has an old style film rewind knob and slightly improved VF over the M6 but is otherwise just that.
For the price of an MP you can get M7 + M4-2 and have two excellent cameras, one being totally independent from batteries. Disadvantage of that swap is that you loose the MP "fondle factor"
That said, both cameras do the job, the M7 depends on batteries except for the 1/125s and 1/60s, but has AE up to 32s, a much better shutter speed control and flash possibilities. The MP has an old style film rewind knob and slightly improved VF over the M6 but is otherwise just that.
For the price of an MP you can get M7 + M4-2 and have two excellent cameras, one being totally independent from batteries. Disadvantage of that swap is that you loose the MP "fondle factor"
david3558
leicaboss
Thanks for the reply, yeah I realize the VF is definitely much better IMO, I had the M6 TTL before I bought the MP and I love how I get no flare, it's just that good. That's why if I wanted the M7 I'd look for one with the MP upgrade...
The MP's old style film rewind knob just looks awesome, I wish I didn't have to dream of a super custom M7 to do it.
The MP's old style film rewind knob just looks awesome, I wish I didn't have to dream of a super custom M7 to do it.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
The M7 is not just for when we are lazy. I have both MP and M7, because I need the M7 for situations where the light is changing rapidly--as it does, say, in Colorado when clouds are rapidly changing and the sun is going in and out. Just at the right moment, the light changes. If I had to manually adjust the exposure, I would miss the shot.
The only drawback of the M7 is that the shutter release does not have the smooth feel of an MP, M6, or just about any other Leica.
Take some of the profit from the sale of the MP and buy a couple extra batteries to keep in the camera bag. Then you won't have to worry about the M7 "battery dependency."
The only drawback of the M7 is that the shutter release does not have the smooth feel of an MP, M6, or just about any other Leica.
Take some of the profit from the sale of the MP and buy a couple extra batteries to keep in the camera bag. Then you won't have to worry about the M7 "battery dependency."
MCTuomey
Veteran
the answer depends on how you prefer to shoot, doesn't it? if you need or want auto exposure w/ stepless speeds, exposure lock at the shutter button, easier long exposures, ttl flash, then the M7's for you. if want a simpler camera that feels superb in use and ages better than any camera ever made, keep the MP.
RFluhver
Well-known
By the way, isn't the MP also having a black paint (if yours happens to be black) and also brass top/bottom plates? Therefore, it brasses over time, right?
This might be important consideration if you're one of these BP nutters.
This might be important consideration if you're one of these BP nutters.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Are you saying that the M7 doesn't have the materials? Oh the horror.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
I agree with MCTuomey, the thing you should be considering the most is your shooting style. The things that the others have mentioned, are all spot on obviously (I have a M7 and I've played with several different models) but IMO less important. You have to see if it matches the way you work, for that I chose the M7 because I tend to work in situations where light changes very often and too quickly to do it manually
david3558
leicaboss
I actually have the chrome MP and I wouldn't mind the chrome M7 either...
As far as type of shooting, that's something I'm still trying to discover. I'm not particularly good at metering, but so far everything seems to work alright with the MP. I travel a lot as a student, so I suppose changing light conditions does occur - just really not sure what I want to do!
This is what I'd do if I did have an M7 though... I photoshopped it.
As far as type of shooting, that's something I'm still trying to discover. I'm not particularly good at metering, but so far everything seems to work alright with the MP. I travel a lot as a student, so I suppose changing light conditions does occur - just really not sure what I want to do!
This is what I'd do if I did have an M7 though... I photoshopped it.
johnny.moped
Established
many repairmen wont be able to service a M7 but all will be able to repair your MP.
Moriturii
Well-known
A camera like MP "working without batteries" is an internet myth and a salesman's selling point and I wish everybody would shut up about it. 99% of you lot live in a western society and only venture out to places where one MIIIGHT consider a mechanical camera maybe once a year and yet you go mad for mechanical cameras. Let's be honest, you guys live in the western world, every corner is filled with starbucks', McDonalds etc having "a fully mechanical camera that works when battery dies" is no issue for you.
Get an M7.
Get an M7.
Well, the MP really does work (i.e. fire at all shutter speeds) without batteries. That bit is not "an internet myth"
I'd still go for the M7 though. I figure that if a camera has an internal meter it may as well have AE as well. AE is convenient, and its no trouble at all to carry a spare set of batteries with you
PMCC
Late adopter.
True that. And 'wrong way' shutter speed dial. Trivial to some, deal-breakers to others.
Beemermark
Veteran
Having owned and used every Leica from the screw mounts to the M7, I'd go with the M7. I, for one, don't understand the hype about the MP. A very beautiful camera but a real throw back in actual use. I'm clueless why anyone would prefer the M3 type rewind over the one used on every other M body. There was a reason Leica dropped it. The later M7's had VF as good as the MP (I had one MP and two M7s). The M7 batteries are hard to find and expensive when you do but when I finally realized that four M76's would fit that was no longer a problem. I just can't think of a reason to own an MP except to put on the shelf and admire.
thegman
Veteran
Personally, I'd stick with the MP, simply because it's beautiful. However, if AE suits your style, then by all means trade.
Also consider keeping the MP though, and getting a Zeiss Ikon too, when used, they are pretty affordable, and you get your AE and a wonderful finder.
I've only ever fondled an M7 once, and was honestly a bit underwhelmed by it.
Also consider keeping the MP though, and getting a Zeiss Ikon too, when used, they are pretty affordable, and you get your AE and a wonderful finder.
I've only ever fondled an M7 once, and was honestly a bit underwhelmed by it.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Eh?
No, it DOES work without batteries. That ain't an internet myth.
And no, not all of us live in places where "every corner is filled with starbucks', McDonalds etc." In fact, some of us take considerable care NOT to live in such places. If I hunted around enough, I could probably find somewhere within 20 miles where I could buy SR-44s, but it would take some hunting. The likeliest bet is Poitiers, three quarters of an hour's drive away. LR-44s are easier to find, but don't last long.
Plenty say, "How difficult is it to carry a couple of spare batteries?" The answer, of course, that it isn't difficult at all. Then again, consider another question: "How easy is it to forget to carry a set of spare batteries at all times?" The answer to that one is equally obvious: "Quite easy."
Unless you actually have the batteries with you, you are going to have to go and buy some. Personally, I'd rather wing it for a few hours without a battery, rather than have to break off whatever I am doing and drive, perhaps for several hours (I was on dirt roads in the Pyrenees last week), to try and find the batteries.
Sure, battery dependency ain't a deal-breaker. I use an M9 as well as film Leicas, and that's obviously battery dependent. But equally, a battery-independent camera is subject to one less constraint.
Cheers,
R.
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MCTuomey
Veteran
M7's shutter button is 3-step which, I think, explains the perception that it's less smooth than earlier models: (1) meter on; (2) exposure lock; (3) trips shutter. My ears tell me the M7's shutter is quieter than its predecessors, though this could be imagination.
Back to what's much more important. Frankly, you don't seem experienced enough to determine which camera might be better for you in use. And you seem stuck on cosmetics. I suggest you keep shooting and the need for features like AE may become apparent. Consensus is you own the better looking of the two models
Back to what's much more important. Frankly, you don't seem experienced enough to determine which camera might be better for you in use. And you seem stuck on cosmetics. I suggest you keep shooting and the need for features like AE may become apparent. Consensus is you own the better looking of the two models
Moriturii
Well-known
No I know it does of course work with no batteries what I meant was that it has no use whats so ever to a person who lives in a western society unless they often take excursions lasting months to barren parts of the world, with no contact with civilization as if we were 16th century explorers, hence it's just a sales pitch that has no use at all for 99% of the people actually buying a modern day fully mechanical camera. It's the ol' tried and tested "YOU NEED THIS" sales pitch, where people are dumb enough to buy the most ridiculous things because sales men use some sort of scare tactic.
"buuut what If it breaks down between the time you have your latte at starbucks and the ride home in your s class mercedes?? YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANICAL CAMERAAAH"
If you can carry ONE extra roll of film in your pocket, you can carry five batteries, simple as. And fact that one might forget batteries? Well that's your problem, sort it out.
Is what I tried to say
"buuut what If it breaks down between the time you have your latte at starbucks and the ride home in your s class mercedes?? YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANICAL CAMERAAAH"
If you can carry ONE extra roll of film in your pocket, you can carry five batteries, simple as. And fact that one might forget batteries? Well that's your problem, sort it out.
Is what I tried to say
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have owned both and I find the MP (or M6) more durable. The only M I have owned that has "broken" and needed repair is the M7 (twice), Having said that when the M7 is in perfect working order, it works perfectly. Also good points Roger. Was deep in the Everglades, this week and it would not be a good place for a battery fail.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No I know it does of course work with no batteries what I meant was that it has no use whats so ever to a person who lives in a western society unless they often take excursions lasting months to barren parts of the world, with no contact with civilization as if we were 16th century explorers, hence it's just a sales pitch that has no use at all for 99% of the people actually buying a modern day fully mechanical camera. It's the ol' tried and tested "YOU NEED THIS" sales pitch, where people are dumb enough to buy the most ridiculous things because sales men use some sort of scare tactic.
"buuut what If it breaks down between the time you have your latte at starbucks and the ride home in your s class mercedes?? YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANICAL CAMERAAAH"
If you can carry ONE extra roll of film in your pocket, you can carry five batteries, simple as. And fact that one might forget batteries? Well that's your problem, sort it out.
Is what I tried to say
One good way of sorting it out is by buying a camera that is not battery dependent...
Why are you obsessed with symbols of luxury and an urban environment? Many of us simply do not live like this. We buy our Leicas to use, not as status symbols. On a recent trip to Estonia on a motorcycle -- 4000 km, in May/June -- I would have to forget batteries only ONCE, at the beginning of the trip, to face the possibility of wasting hours trying to buy new ones in (as it might be) rural Poland. Your Polish might be better than mine, but it's still going to be time consuming.
Last time the batteries ran out on my MP I was in the Forbidden City in Beijing. I 'borrowed' the batteries from my wife's back-up camera, but if I hadn't been able to do that, I'd still have been able to use the MP: I'd not have had to go out, and in again, to find batteries. There were more batteries, back in the hotel room, but hey, I change my clothes, and I don't always use the same camera bag (or indeed, any camera bag). Even if your memory is flawless now, all I can say is that as you get older, you may yet learn to trust it less.
Yes, I use check-lists. But even then, I'll occasionally tick something off as 'present' because I'm sure it's there -- only to find that I was wrong. Which is why the exhaust pipe on my Land Rover is now slung in place with three Jubilee clips, instead of the wire I thought I had with me. I did the repair outside Biota on a dirt road.
You are quite right that the 'fear factor' is used to sell all sorts of things. But you can't just counter it with the "Duh, are you too stoopid to carry spare batteries" factor.
Cheers,
R.