dave lackey
Veteran
A student? Have you the funds to buy either? If so, the fact that you are even considering the MP, well, go with it. Do you have to struggle to get the funds? Try an M4 or such.
Going into debt is never a good thing.:angel:
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Akiva,
This is a fundamental point. The fact that you can buy another battery tomorrow, or even later today, ain't much of an attraction if you've got to cut your shooting short RIGHT NOW. Often, missing the shot is a question of hours or even minutes. Being able to install new batteries this evening or tomorrow ain't much of a consolation.
Yes, of course we SHOULD carry spare batteries. But I find it hard to believe that even the most self-satisfied advocate of "How hard is it to carry spare batteries" has never forgotten anything in his life.
Yes, if your photography isn't very important to you (indeed, part of your livelihood); if it's a mere amusement between trips to Starbucks and McDo; if you never go anywhere more that a few minutes from an electronics store; if you've never missed a picture in your life from having to change films, let alone change batteries as well; in that case, sure, you can dismiss battery dependency as completely irrelevant. Otherwise, it's an admittedly minor but still non-negligible consideration.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Dave,
Seconded. If you are debt-free you can live surprisingly well on surprisingly little. I wish I'd understood this a LOT better when I was younger. Pleasantly many of the more intelligent young people I know today (in their 'teens and 20s) are aware of the inadvisability of ANY debt, unless it actually saves you more than it costs (e.g. owning a house instead of renting).
Going into debt to buy expensive luxuries is lunacy, much akin to selling your soul to the devil. The bank and the government may not have the power to damn your soul eternally, but they can make this lifetime pretty tedious.
Cheers,
R.
MCTuomey
Veteran
Salgado and Nachtwey use battery-dependent cameras, among many other excellent photographers who do the same and work in harsh conditions far from consumer conveniences. If you can't figure out a way to ensure you have spares when you need them, then it makes sense to use cameras that can still operate without battery power. Both the M7 and MP can do so. No need to belabor the point.
peter_n
Veteran
I used two M7s and three years ago sold them and got two MPs as replacements. I like both cameras but had gotten lazy with the AE on the M7s and had started to screw up my exposures. It's not an issue to change shutter speed with an MP when the light changes and most film has good latitude anyway. You do think more about the light with a mechanical camera but that's a good thing; we should be thinking about light all the time.
The stepless shutter speeds on the M7 are great for very accurate exposures when you're being careful about such things, so if you shoot slides the M7 is the preferred choice. The M7 is also quieter at the slower shutter speeds which may be important to you but wasn't to me. I did start feeling a bit uneasy about the electronics in the M7 but never had any problems in my ownership. They are good cameras.
All of this is about use but you're Photoshopping an M7. Do you want to use the camera or just look at it?
The stepless shutter speeds on the M7 are great for very accurate exposures when you're being careful about such things, so if you shoot slides the M7 is the preferred choice. The M7 is also quieter at the slower shutter speeds which may be important to you but wasn't to me. I did start feeling a bit uneasy about the electronics in the M7 but never had any problems in my ownership. They are good cameras.
All of this is about use but you're Photoshopping an M7. Do you want to use the camera or just look at it?
kshapero
South Florida Man
I use a Nikon FE (aperture preferred) around town, no problem but when in the wild or far away, it is a Nikon F, or an M3 or my R3M. Of course if you can be happy with an SLR then the Nikon FM3a is truly da bomb, but I digress....
Austerby
Well-known
Batteries have only failed me once when in the midst of taking photographs, this was when using my R3A. As it happens I was photographing an old sailing boat undergoing maintenance in a drawdock on the Thames by the Dome. There was a lovely juxtaposition between the old boat and the shining towers of Canary Wharf in the distance. I had plenty of film and the light was good. The camera then stopped. Fortunately there was a nearby Maplin store which stocked the relevant batteries so I could come back and carry on shooting, but I missed a good 20 mins of good light that afternoon.
RFluhver
Well-known
Sorry....but quick question. If you're battery does run out of your M6 or MP, couldn't you just resort to a handheld meter or even sunny 16? I have an M6 and I actually don't use the onboard meter. I have one of them Digisix thingamajigs.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Of course, that's the whole point. With a manual camera, you are still in business.
maddoc
... likes film again.
Given Tri-X to be exposed @ 400ISO and a f/16 - f/1.4 lens then an exposure lattitude from cloudy-bright (1/125 - f/16) to average home interiors (1/60 - f/1.4) without the need for a battery in the M7 is possible. That should cover most situations ...
david3558
leicaboss
Thanks for your input. I use my camera just like any of you do, but I have a certain aesthetic I prefer in my equipment. If it's going to cost me nearly everything I own in the first place why can't I have something the way I like it?
You guys are awesome taking the time to mention this. Thankfully I'm well aware of this and can proudly say I am not in debt! I'm able to make money through some work-study programs and extended paid internships so all is well. Just skimping on the non-photography stuff pretty thoroughly!
sanmich
Veteran
battery dependence, ease of use of the controls, form factors have been adressed.
I would like to propose the OP to ask another question:
Do you shoot under changing light?
If not, if you mostly shoot in a cloudy place or in overcast weather, AE is not really useful.
Also, when I shoot seriously, I know pretty much what is the exposure range I need to work with.
If I just carry the camera, and once in a long time want to grab a shot, I think AE can be great.
I would like to propose the OP to ask another question:
Do you shoot under changing light?
If not, if you mostly shoot in a cloudy place or in overcast weather, AE is not really useful.
Also, when I shoot seriously, I know pretty much what is the exposure range I need to work with.
If I just carry the camera, and once in a long time want to grab a shot, I think AE can be great.
Tzelet
-
I went from non-AE to AE, and haven't looked back. For me, in practical use, it is much faster. I solved the battery dependency thing by using a battery wrap fastened to my strap (http://www.artisanandartist.com/acc/acam49.htm).
presspass
filmshooter
Don't forget that the M7 can be a finicky camera - flashing dots when the ISO of the film canister doesn't agree with the ISO on the dial or when the reader in the camera is an old-style. I have both and use the M7 more than the MP but that's not the whole story. I tend to take the older M6s out a lot, don't know why with all this newer stuff around. The battery issue isn't - I check mine with a tester and replace every six months or so even if they don't test low.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear David,
Good for you! As I said in an earlier post, "Pleasantly many of the more intelligent young people I know today (in their 'teens and 20s) are aware of the inadvisability of ANY debt, unless it actually saves you more than it costs (e.g. owning a house instead of renting)."
I trust you realize, though, that buying a Leica at all makes you a witless snob with more money than sense and will all but stop you taking pictures. Just ask the anti-Leica brigade! It never seems to occur to them that you (or I, or anyone else) might actually enjoy taking pictures with good equipment which has, as you say, "a certain aesthetic". Or that we may be prepared to give up some other things in order to use a Leica.
Cheers,
R.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
No I know it does of course work with no batteries what I meant was that it has no use whats so ever to a person who lives in a western society unless they often take excursions lasting months to barren parts of the world, with no contact with civilization as if we were 16th century explorers, hence it's just a sales pitch that has no use at all for 99% of the people actually buying a modern day fully mechanical camera. It's the ol' tried and tested "YOU NEED THIS" sales pitch, where people are dumb enough to buy the most ridiculous things because sales men use some sort of scare tactic.
"buuut what If it breaks down between the time you have your latte at starbucks and the ride home in your s class mercedes?? YOU HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANICAL CAMERAAAH"
If you can carry ONE extra roll of film in your pocket, you can carry five batteries, simple as. And fact that one might forget batteries? Well that's your problem, sort it out.
Is what I tried to say
What you're saying excludes people like myself -- plus most of photographers that I came in contact with, really. We love to use a manual camera simply because we appreciate a fully mechanical device.
Having said that, I am also very appreciative not having to think about batteries when I am using my camera. It is strangely liberating and it causes you to think more about the light, and its relationship with the exposure. It makes you more aware of the experience of taking a picture.
You should try it sometime
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nobbylon
Veteran
The battery issue is a non event, plenty of people here using battery dependant M8's and M9's, DSLR's etc and no one ever complains about that. Stick some extra batteries in your pocket and that issue is gone.
The bigger issue is whether or not you need AE and if that works better for you then that's what you need.
Personally I wouldn't swap as I find the M6ttl and the M7 too far removed from the older cameras. Bigger shutter dials and top plate which has nothing to do with picture taking but I prefer the smaller bodies with smaller shutter dials.
Long term the MP will realise more value but that's irrelevant if you don't intend to sell.
I still think they are way over priced but in the end if you want the latest metered manual Leica you have no choice. I'd keep the MP.
The bigger issue is whether or not you need AE and if that works better for you then that's what you need.
Personally I wouldn't swap as I find the M6ttl and the M7 too far removed from the older cameras. Bigger shutter dials and top plate which has nothing to do with picture taking but I prefer the smaller bodies with smaller shutter dials.
Long term the MP will realise more value but that's irrelevant if you don't intend to sell.
I still think they are way over priced but in the end if you want the latest metered manual Leica you have no choice. I'd keep the MP.
Beemermark
Veteran
On the battery issue, My M7 battery did die, I was without a battery replacement (dumb) and was not able to buy a battery for almost the entire time of my trip (about 5 days). I was on Amtrak. had to make do with the two mechanical speeds and guessing at exposure. Still worked out OK.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No. What you mean is, "It's never affected me" and "My memory is, and always will be, so flawless that it never will affect me."
I sincerely hope you're right about the latter, but I doubt it.
My viewpoint is this: battery independence is worth more to me than auto-exposure. To say nothing of local reparability.
You may take the opposite view, in which case the very best of luck to you. One day you'll probably need it. But to dismiss so cavalierly those who prefer cameras that work without batteries is evidence of a certain lack of age and experience.
Cheers,
R.
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celluloidprop
Well-known
I always forgot to turn off my M7. Something about that on-off placement was hard for me to remember.
I think, at this point, a MP is the only thing I'd move up from my freshly CLAed M4 to (aside from a M9, natch). But on the used market they're still waaaaaay more than I could justify spending on a film body.
I think, at this point, a MP is the only thing I'd move up from my freshly CLAed M4 to (aside from a M9, natch). But on the used market they're still waaaaaay more than I could justify spending on a film body.