Thoughts on Photography Workshops

[Damaso]

On my blog I've posted an entry about photography workshops. Here's a snippet, check out the full post for the rest...

"The truth of the matter is that most workshops are a scam. Most, but not all, photographers do them to make a quick buck. Some have portfolio requirements but many if not most do not. As long as you’ve got a pulse and the check clears, come on down! Sure you get to rub shoulders with a great photographer and maybe you pick up a trick or two…"

"But what happens when you get home? How do you put into practice what you just learned on a daily basis? The photographer is long gone onto the next great assignment or workshop. You however are stuck right where you were before, a few thousand dollars poorer and not much more knowledgeable."

"Maybe you’ve done a workshop with a great photographer and it has changed your life. Great! But I feel like most people pay for something they won’t end up getting in these settings."

 

[Juan Valdenebro]

I agree with you, Dámaso... It's money what gives birth to those scams... Knowledge takes a lot more time and effort, both from the learner and the master.

Cheers,

Juan

 

[John Lawrence]

The "group" workshop experience just reminds me too much of school to want to try one!

Much prefer one to one with a good teacher, and some of the pros I've done this with over the years have been excellent and I've learned a lot. Even today, a good many years after my last course, they're still quite happy for me to call them up to ask questions, have a chat, view my portfolio or (in one case) even lend me equipment - all gratis.

John

 

[Roger Hicks]

Another post supporting an anti-workshop world picture.

I've never felt the need to go on one: I'd rather spend the money on film, travel, books and magazines. The few I've met who've been on them have been serial victims, blown by the wind: hopeless guru-worshippers, for the most part of hopelessly minor gurus.

Maybe that's why I'm completely unable to organize one, despite having better 'credentials' than quite a few of those who do organize one.

The only route to earning a living from photography is photography, and paying the price of following that will o' the wisp.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

The only route to earning a living from photography is photography, and paying the price of following that will o' the wisp.

Cheers,

R.

Seems like a lot of photographers earn no money taking pictures or selling photos, they make it teaching workshops or selling gadgets to 'improve' your photography. I've been told several times that the real money in photography is in selling gear or selling dreams to starry eyed amateurs who want to make big bucks taking pics.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Seems like a lot of photographers earn no money taking pictures or selling photos, they make it teaching workshops or selling gadgets to 'improve' your photography. I've been told several times that the real money in photography is in selling gear or selling dreams to starry eyed amateurs who want to make big bucks taking pics.

Dear Chris,

I stand corrected!

At least I've never pretended that www.rogerandfrances.com will help you sell pics.

Make you a better photographer, yes, I hope. But earn you money? That's a different matter...

Cheers,

R.

 

[John Lawrence]

One of the pros I once worked with reckoned the worst of all workshops was the "glamour photography workshop"!

John

 

[Roger Hicks]

One of the pros I once worked with reckoned the worst of all workshops was the "glamour photography workshop"!

John

Dear John,

Yeah, but at least the participants don't need to waste money on putting film in their cameras.

Cheers,

R.

 

[emraphoto]

Taking the few grant writing workshops I have has been extremely helpful. None were cheap but all were worth their fee.

 

[Phantomas]

I'm flying to one in the morning. Beirut. Nikos Economopoulos. Magnum guy.

I'm going there to be in a new place and what I expect to be extremely photogenic city/environment, spend a week discovering, meeting people around the city shooting with likeminded ones and getting critiqued by a great photographer who's work you agree with. Eating sleeping and ****ting photography for a week. Even just at that it's going to be awesome and is well worth it. I actually hope Nikos will use that money to indeed work on the side on his own thing and if all our fees sponsor that the more I'm happy. He's hanging out in the old Levant, Turkey/Greece and Balkan regions the whole year doing this, so I sure as hell hope he's doing his thing as well.

What I'll come back with is not a "scam" but some great experience whichever way it goes. Even with minimal input I myself must be blind not to absorb some knowhow either from the teacher or the participants or the city itself.

See y'all later.

 

[Damaso]

I'm flying to one in the morning. Beirut. Nikos Economopoulos. Magnum guy.

I'm going there to be in a new place and what I expect to be extremely photogenic city/environment, spend a week discovering, meeting people around the city shooting with likeminded ones and getting critiqued by a great photographer who's work you agree with. Eating sleeping and ****ting photography for a week. Even just at that it's going to be awesome and is well worth it. I actually hope Nikos will use that money to indeed work on the side on his own thing and if all our fees sponsor that the more I'm happy. He's hanging out in the old Levant, Turkey/Greece and Balkan regions the whole year doing this, so I sure as hell hope he's doing his thing as well.

What I'll come back with is not a "scam" but some great experience whichever way it goes. Even with minimal input I myself must be blind not to absorb some knowhow either from the teacher or the participants or the city itself.

See y'all later.

Have fun! As I've said some people really enjoy these types of workshops and get something out of them. For those people I'm sure they are unmatched experiences.

One of the things I wanted to point out is by their very nature workshops are limiting. Great photographers aren't made in a day, weekend or week but over time. As someone who has been taught and who teaches I feel the most meaningful way to impart information in this field is through a long term relationship between student and teacher.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I don't think any of us maintains that they're ALL scams -- just (as the OP pointed out) that MOST are. There's a big difference between a week in Beirut with a Magnum photographer and three days in a draughty bed and breakfast in the English countryside with someone who's even less famous than I am.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

I guess some workshops are simply set up for some photographers to improve their revenue streams, but it's not necessarily a scam unless there is misrepresentation as to outcomes and the participants come away feeling "ripped off".
In my own case and, I suspect, for many others, the occasional workshop can provide some sort of experiential entree to an area of photography not previously explored or, I'm just in need of some motivation and a few days with an experienced photographer and other like minded people can provide some of that. Sure, you can read books or research other sources but maybe we want a bit more social interaction along with the learning and perhaps a bit of a holiday as well? Visiting interesting places and enjoying the local food and wine can't be all bad.

One of the bigger problems today is that almost every workshop is aimed at digital capture and Photoshop post-processing. If you're a film user you don't get much to choose from! C'est la vie!

Actually, it's sounding more and more like there's a niche for Roger and Frances!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Leigh,

I'm sure you're right about the social/motivational side and that's why I think Arles is so important. I'll update that on my forum here.

Cheers,

R.

 

[mfunnell]

In my own case and, I suspect, for many others, the occasional workshop can provide some sort of experiential entree to an area of photography not previously explored or, I'm just in need of some motivation and a few days with an experienced photographer and other like minded people can provide some of that. Sure, you can read books or research other sources but maybe we want a bit more social interaction along with the learning and perhaps a bit of a holiday as well? Visiting interesting places and enjoying the local food and wine can't be all bad.

That was certainly my experience on the one occasion I've done this. That was a week in Lamington National Park, organised through Australian Geographic and Darren Leal, the photographer who ran the course. The total cost was very little more than the regular price for staying at the venue - due, I'm sure, to sensibly managing a bulk booking for the number of people who showed up. The venue was great, the interaction with like-minded people was good and I even learned a few things about photography (mostly use of flash). I can't see how anybody was ripped off in that: the hotel got a bulk booking in a normally slow part of the year, we all got a good holiday in a nice location for about the regular room rate, Darren got paid and, as a bonus, some learning was done. I'd do it again. Not the same course at the same place (though I've been back to the venue separately and will likely go again) but some similar arrangement where the location is good, the price is right and learning something new about photography is a possibility.

...Mike

 

[FrankS]

I think that there are 2 important and very different factors to consider when selecting a workshop: First you need to find a photographer whose work /photostyle that resonates with you because this is a very fundamental ans subjective personal issue; and secondly but just as importantly, what you get out of a workshop will depend largely on the ability of the photographer to communicate and teach whatever the currriculum is. I'm sure that there are many fantastically tallented photographers with more limited abilities to transfer their knowledge and skills to others.

 

[Finder]

I think that there are 2 important and very different factors to consider when selecting a workshop: First you need to find a photographer whose work /photostyle that resonates with you because this is a very fundamental ans subjective personal issue; and secondly but just as importantly, what you get out of a workshop will depend largely on the ability of the photographer to communicate and teach whatever the currriculum is. I'm sure that there are many fantastically tallented photographers with more limited abilities to transfer their knowledge and skills to others.

What are you trying to do? Inject reason into this thread! 😀

 

[FrankS]

Sorry about that. 🙂 Guess I was stating the obvious as well.

 

[Chris101]

I've only attended one, but it was great. And yep, it changed my photography completely. Got me to buy a Leica even!

 

[AusDLK]

Take a workshop from David Alan Harvey and then tell us what to think about them.