dave lackey
Veteran
Just wish we had a Leica store in the Southeast part of the U.S. I think the nearest one is in Miami, two days drive from here.
It would be nice to actually put hands on new camera in a brick and mortar store in lieu of the virtual junk on the net. I, for one, will be buying a new X1 for a new project. Not to "flash" the red dot around.
I am also in the market for a used M9 with 35 summilux as soon as I can get enough business lined up to pay for it. Just takes time...
As it is, we can't even look at a new Leica in Atlanta without purchasing one and sending it back if we don't like it. THAT is bad marketing IMO... But, Leica is doing well now because they have identified a marketing strategy that works for a niche company in hard times. My hat is off to them. Even if they were to build more stores, they cannot make any more cameras or lenses faster than they are now. A good problem to have, I suppose.
It would be nice to actually put hands on new camera in a brick and mortar store in lieu of the virtual junk on the net. I, for one, will be buying a new X1 for a new project. Not to "flash" the red dot around.
I am also in the market for a used M9 with 35 summilux as soon as I can get enough business lined up to pay for it. Just takes time...
As it is, we can't even look at a new Leica in Atlanta without purchasing one and sending it back if we don't like it. THAT is bad marketing IMO... But, Leica is doing well now because they have identified a marketing strategy that works for a niche company in hard times. My hat is off to them.
Even if they were to build more stores, they cannot make any more cameras or lenses faster than they are now. A good problem to have, I suppose.Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I too drool over the X1Pro's specs, but my M9 is not going anywhere. I love, for instance, the look produced by the 21 Biogon on the M9. I can only get that on a full-frame sensor. As for it's being a status symbol, I suppose it could be in the right circles. For most folks, when I tell them what it cost it merely confirms that I ain't quite right in the head.
P
Peter S
Guest
Dave, a little bit off topic, but noted you are considering a X1 for a project. Try the Fuji x100 as well, very nice viewfinder and convenient controls. I handled one in a store and really liked it.
My two main cameras are the Fuji X100 and the Leica M9. I also will purchase the X-Pro1. The Fujis are me thinking towards the future, because I just don't think I'll want to pay Leica digital prices again. However, the M9 is still my favorite camera. It is the camera I'm going to use most. The Fujis come in handy when I need high ISO.
dave lackey
Veteran
Thanks Peter...
Capable camera, but just doesn't fit into my work plan, though. :angel:
Capable camera, but just doesn't fit into my work plan, though. :angel:
On top of that for something to be a status symbol it needs to be recognized as being expensive/rare/exclusive etc and most people will consider a big dlsr with all the bells and wistles more a sign of status than the funny little grand pa camera that you still have to focus by hand
Exactly! Most non-photography people don't know Leica (well, besides maybe gold diggers and old men). Only photo / camera geeks pull out the status thing when talking of these cameras.
Jim Evidon
Jim
To paraphrase Lance Armstrong: It's not about the camera. I am still using my M8 and Nikon D300, and I still haven't wrung all the potential out of the cameras and I doubt that I ever will do so.
The new Fuji X Pro looks interesting, and according to Fuji will have available as one of the first accessories, an M lens adapter. So manual focus is available. To me the X Pro looks like the ideal autofocus RF camera, but where have we heard that before? My old and departed Contax G2 was supposed to fulfill that need, but didn't. Time and technology marches on.
The new Fuji X Pro looks interesting, and according to Fuji will have available as one of the first accessories, an M lens adapter. So manual focus is available. To me the X Pro looks like the ideal autofocus RF camera, but where have we heard that before? My old and departed Contax G2 was supposed to fulfill that need, but didn't. Time and technology marches on.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I was at a birthday party for a friend of my son. A second birthday. I was taking a couple of pictures of my son eating a cupcake. Another friend of his, his mother, ask me to take a couple of her son as well. She then asked me what kind of camera I was using. After I told her, she said "Oh, I never heard of it. I guess it is not popular."
BTW, my other favorite system is the M4/3s. I have a couple of Lumixs' and lenses, and I use them as much as my M9. Sometimes together. A fantastic system. No one ever even passes a glance my way when I am out using them!
BTW, my other favorite system is the M4/3s. I have a couple of Lumixs' and lenses, and I use them as much as my M9. Sometimes together. A fantastic system. No one ever even passes a glance my way when I am out using them!
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Thank you for the very interesting side-by-side comparison. Nice demo scene! There are differences visible at this size, but the biggest difference I can see is in brightness. A little tweek of your jpg and I find it hard to pick a winner at this size, hard even to find any difference. I think the Fuji and probably all modern digital cameras produce damn fine images.
About the M9 being out of date -- Heading to a recent wedding, I grabbed my Nikon D70 from circa 2004 and got excellent images.
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Jim Evidon
Jim
A photographer was a guest at a dinner party and brought along one of his prized photos to show off. The hostess said, "Oh, isn't that marvelous. What kind of camera did you use?"
During the meal, someone told the hostess that the souffle was excellent. The photographer asked her, "What kind of souffle dish did you use?"
Point made.
During the meal, someone told the hostess that the souffle was excellent. The photographer asked her, "What kind of souffle dish did you use?"
Point made.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Because we think that only stupid people buy them as status symbols? And that you need to be even stupider to accept them as that? Some of us economize elsewhere in order to buy Leicas: they're not casual purchases.
A lot of us buy Leicas because in our view there is no better RF camera. We buy them to take pictures. Who the hell are we going to impress? The only person who is impressed is going to be someone who knows what a Leica is and wants one (a fairly small category in its own right), but is too mean/too poor/too intellectually dishonest to admit it.
Cheers,
R.
f6andBthere
Well-known
It's funny that Leicas get sold in a boutique environment when in reality, as stated often in this thread, the camera is unrecognisable to the average Joe ... or Jill!
Then again you'll generally get treated very differently in a Mercedes dealership to what you will in the Toyota or Mazda equivalent because they know that you're considering buying a premium priced vehicle noted for it's reputation and build quality ... and if you didn't have the dosh you wouldn't be in there!
Like Dave ... I think I'd quite like to experience the 'Leica Shop' treatment. Better than going into some photographic side arm of an electrical retailer to be bombarded by annoying pimply faced sales assisants who don't really know what they're taking about.
I think I just became a snob ... it feels OK too!
Then again you'll generally get treated very differently in a Mercedes dealership to what you will in the Toyota or Mazda equivalent because they know that you're considering buying a premium priced vehicle noted for it's reputation and build quality ... and if you didn't have the dosh you wouldn't be in there!
Like Dave ... I think I'd quite like to experience the 'Leica Shop' treatment. Better than going into some photographic side arm of an electrical retailer to be bombarded by annoying pimply faced sales assisants who don't really know what they're taking about.
I think I just became a snob ... it feels OK too!
dave lackey
Veteran
+1...f6!
We have been driving old Mercedes automobiles forever for a lot of reasons and we enjoy the dealer experience when there (not often as I do most of the mechanical work myself or with an independent), and we really appreciate the car being washed inside and out and delivered to you as if you were their best customer.:angel: We have about a quarter of a million miles on our 1999 SUV.
Compare that to the 2007 Lincoln I had as a company car for a couple of years where the Ford dealer was run by a bunch of rednecks, dirty shop, potholes in the parking lot and drive, idiot mechanics and counterpersons and I got a dirty car covered with dust and pollen with grease on the carpets everytime we went back for warranty work.
So, yes, you generally get what you pay for...meaning that our dealership is very nice to work with and I have developed a lot of friendships there which result in a lot more niceties.
I would love to actually visit a Leica shop, a real shop. With cameras and lenses you can see and feel and try out. And ask questions to size up the people working there. Gack, how much I hate talking to those kids at Best Buy and Ritz...rather have a root canal without pain killer.
So, back to the OT, I think the M9 will evolve into the next iteration of a digital M camera for sure, but the M9 is so capable now. How many changes? I have no idea and could I live out my life working with the M9? Absolutely.
We have been driving old Mercedes automobiles forever for a lot of reasons and we enjoy the dealer experience when there (not often as I do most of the mechanical work myself or with an independent), and we really appreciate the car being washed inside and out and delivered to you as if you were their best customer.:angel: We have about a quarter of a million miles on our 1999 SUV.
Compare that to the 2007 Lincoln I had as a company car for a couple of years where the Ford dealer was run by a bunch of rednecks, dirty shop, potholes in the parking lot and drive, idiot mechanics and counterpersons and I got a dirty car covered with dust and pollen with grease on the carpets everytime we went back for warranty work.
So, yes, you generally get what you pay for...meaning that our dealership is very nice to work with and I have developed a lot of friendships there which result in a lot more niceties.
I would love to actually visit a Leica shop, a real shop. With cameras and lenses you can see and feel and try out. And ask questions to size up the people working there. Gack, how much I hate talking to those kids at Best Buy and Ritz...rather have a root canal without pain killer.
So, back to the OT, I think the M9 will evolve into the next iteration of a digital M camera for sure, but the M9 is so capable now. How many changes? I have no idea and could I live out my life working with the M9? Absolutely.
f6andBthere
Well-known
+1...f6!
We have been driving old Mercedes automobiles forever for a lot of reasons and we enjoy the dealer experience when there (not often as I do most of the mechanical work myself or with an independent), and we really appreciate the car being washed inside and out and delivered to you as if you were their best customer.:angel: We have about a quarter of a million miles on our 1999 SUV.
Compare that to the 2007 Lincoln I had as a company car for a couple of years where the Ford dealer was run by a bunch of rednecks, dirty shop, potholes in the parking lot and drive, idiot mechanics and counterpersons and I got a dirty car covered with dust and pollen with grease on the carpets everytime we went back for warranty work.
So, yes, you generally get what you pay for...meaning that our dealership is very nice to work with and I have developed a lot of friendships there which result in a lot more niceties.
I would love to actually visit a Leica shop, a real shop. With cameras and lenses you can see and feel and try out. And ask questions to size up the people working there. Gack, how much I hate talking to those kids at Best Buy and Ritz...rather have a root canal without pain killer.
So, back to the OT, I think the M9 will evolve into the next iteration of a digital M camera for sure, but the M9 is so capable now. How many changes? I have no idea and could I live out my life working with the M9? Absolutely.
One stop of sensor improvement would be all it would take for me I think. I gather the camera is OK at 1600 though not in the league of the latest DSLRs etc ... but what is? I have heard that the noise removal software in the latest version of Lightroom is pretty stunning and maybe worth a stop in itself ... so that's to be considered for sure.
I personally hope that Leica don't make too many changes to the successor aside from a possible sensor change. I didn't think much of the M9ti they released in limited numbers to be honest ... it looked odd to me and that frameline system isn't necessary IMO ... just added complexity!
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
So, a person who looks at the Leica brand, sees how the company is positioning itself in the market, sees events that the company chooses to sponsor, see the Hermes limited edition Calfskin covered camera, sees the Titanium camera in its lovely display case and then after all of that determines these objects-though they be useful tools- are status symbols. This person just wants a Leica but is too mean/too poor/too intellectually dishonest to admit it? There is no response to this. Sorry for trying to have a conversation. Enjoy the thread. :bang:
Cheers,
db
TR3B
Established
My favorite is early Saturday morning with my M8 and collapsible Summicron= $2400
I own an old piece of #$%^ 1Ds and all old OM and Nikon manual glass that still gets my full-frame needs done= $800
Panasonic G1 with a Hektor Rapid 2.7cm f/1.4 that draws like no other= $275
What the hell more could a guy ask for or need as a hobbyist.
XPRO1
Go get em Boys!
I own an old piece of #$%^ 1Ds and all old OM and Nikon manual glass that still gets my full-frame needs done= $800
Panasonic G1 with a Hektor Rapid 2.7cm f/1.4 that draws like no other= $275
What the hell more could a guy ask for or need as a hobbyist.
XPRO1
Go get em Boys!
Archiver
Veteran
One of my best friends knows very little about cameras, but his father inherited his own father's Leica. I had been shooting with a taped-up black M9 for several months without him making any comments other than, 'that camera looks old'. So far, so good.
One day I showed up with a chrome M7, resplendent with red dot and all. He looked at it quizzically and said, 'I didn't know you had a Leica!' Heck. I felt like shoving it in my bag and never taking it out again. I got over it, though.
Another friend who knows little about cameras looked at my Sigma DP1 and asked if it was a Leica! Despite knowing next to nothing about cameras and photography he still knew the name.
Most other people think that the M9 is an old film camera, which is how I like it. Those who know what it is tend to be camera buffs, which can lead to interesting conversations. This is pretty cool, as well.
As for upgrading to 'better' gear, I have a 5D Mark II, which allows me to shoot just about everything that the Leica cannot. But the M9 gives me gorgeously rich yet subtle files that are unlike what the Canon can produce. The closest I've seen are the Sigma cameras and now the Ricoh GXR M-mount module, but the M9 still beats them for subtlety of colour gradation, sharpness and overall look.
Even when Leica brings out the M10 it will have to be darn good, and far better than the M9, for me to want to upgrade.
One day I showed up with a chrome M7, resplendent with red dot and all. He looked at it quizzically and said, 'I didn't know you had a Leica!' Heck. I felt like shoving it in my bag and never taking it out again. I got over it, though.
Another friend who knows little about cameras looked at my Sigma DP1 and asked if it was a Leica! Despite knowing next to nothing about cameras and photography he still knew the name.
Most other people think that the M9 is an old film camera, which is how I like it. Those who know what it is tend to be camera buffs, which can lead to interesting conversations. This is pretty cool, as well.
As for upgrading to 'better' gear, I have a 5D Mark II, which allows me to shoot just about everything that the Leica cannot. But the M9 gives me gorgeously rich yet subtle files that are unlike what the Canon can produce. The closest I've seen are the Sigma cameras and now the Ricoh GXR M-mount module, but the M9 still beats them for subtlety of colour gradation, sharpness and overall look.
Even when Leica brings out the M10 it will have to be darn good, and far better than the M9, for me to want to upgrade.
Lss
Well-known
No problem with that. A pair of jeans can be a status symbol, or an island in Greece. Or whatever. A Leica can certainly be a status symbol.
Leica is however not only a status symbol. It is a tool for photography. A digital Leica is a very capable camera that is pretty much the only option for anyone who wants to shoot a digital rangefinder camera. There are such people. And they do care about their photography, although the "status symbol" crowd often tries to imply otherwise. Whether these people are masters or just average pros or hobbyists has very little significance. What matters is what works best for them. We all need to live with the market we have.
bobbyrab
Well-known
Did he ever find out what kind of souffle dish was actually used?
hellomikmik
Well-known
sure - villeroy and boch