Thoughts on the Leica M9 ... So where to now for the old girl?

[Turtle]

You've lost me and I suspect plenty of others too. From what you are saying are we to gather that Leica uses plush boutiques and luxury paraphernalia to sell luxury goods? OK, sure, but this is fairly obvious because all quality/non low end brands do the same.

I think you may be confusing 'luxury/quality' (which is something that can be appreciated internally) with 'status symbol' (which is something projected outwards for the affect it has on others). Quality and aficionado some to mind with Leica, but not status symbol. They are too obscure for that. As to suggest that Leica derives lots of its income from men buying to impress an accompanying woman, well, thats just fantasy. There are many more obvious (and impressive) ways to blow cash to impress people.

A person can buy a top Merdedes because of their love of cars and passion for the brand without having the slightest concern what other people might think. In fact, some people would feel slightly embarrassed with their 100K top Mercedes and buy it despite feeling like the show off they are not.

I own a number of Leicas and use them with great sincerity. I know plenty of others do too. While many Leica owners do love the brand (esp the M series) for their jewel like quality, I suspect this is a solo pleasure due to the fact that most people do not know anything about Leica and could not care less. Its a rare person on the street whose eyes light up when they see a Leica. Most assume its an old camera that you would have to be silly to be fooling around with.

I own a number of Ms because I feel they are the best tool for me to get the job done. If they were inexpensive and not highly revered by some, I would still use them. It would be nice if they were cheaper, but sadly they are not.

So, a person who looks at the Leica brand, sees how the company is positioning itself in the market, sees events that the company chooses to sponsor, see the Hermes limited edition Calfskin covered camera, sees the Titanium camera in its lovely display case and then after all of that determines these objects-though they be useful tools- are status symbols. This person just wants a Leica but is too mean/too poor/too intellectually dishonest to admit it? There is no response to this. Sorry for trying to have a conversation. Enjoy the thread. :bang:

Cheers,

db

 

[Peter S]

Here at RFF we are enthusiasts and in general down to earth people that bolt at the suggestion that their tool is a status symbol. I would not be surprised however if in certain parts of the world where there is a lot of recent wealth Leica is looked at as a status symbol. In a way Leica has always flirted with that notion, in the past with their special editions (Sultan of Brunei to name one of the more tasteful ones) and more recently with their boutiques. The more people buy Leica, the better as it only makes the company stronger and its chances of survival bigger. The only downside I can see is that it could drive prices further up and then, to come back on topic, camera's like the Fuji X Pro will gain even more traction.

 

[jsrockit]

The only person who is impressed is going to be someone who knows what a Leica is and wants one (a fairly small category in its own right), but is too mean/too poor/too intellectually dishonest to admit it.

Well, photographers who don't like rangefinders will know the camera and won't want one. Not everyone who knows of the M9 wants it.

The issue I have is when people have no clue what the difference between a mechnical rangefinder digital camera with old school controls and a DSLR and proceed to say you are stupid for buying one (M9) over the other (DSLR). Different philosophies.

 

[jippiejee]

I've bought all of my Leica gear used, and always picked it up myself since I live in a country with no distances (the Netherlands). What I noticed was the humble nature of the Leica people. Always very kind and soft-spoken, living in very middle-class houses, often without much to show for but their love for good photography equipment and photography. Saw some great collection of photobooks in their homes. I think I could have been friends with any of them. They never seemed to be into the status thing of Leica, but loved their gear for the intrinsic quality of it. Some of them were photographers, but most were just men with some disposable income who loved their hobby.

 

[anerjee]

What is being pointed out is a discrepancy between Leica as the brand and Leica as the product that many here love.

Today the brand is positioned to appeal to a certain section of society which may be more status conscious than the "usual" Leica photographer. Nothing wrong or right about it, and it definitely does not detract from the product.

Also, Leica is definitely not obscure, especially here in Asia.

I think you may be confusing 'luxury/quality' (which is something that can be appreciated internally) with 'status symbol' (which is something projected outwards for the affect it has on others). Quality and aficionado some to mind with Leica, but not status symbol. They are too obscure for that. As to suggest that Leica derives lots of its income from men buying to impress an accompanying woman, well, thats just fantasy. There are many more obvious (and impressive) ways to blow cash to impress people.

 

[Ben Z]

Bottom line for me, I don't like EVF's, at least none that I've seen so far. If I add up all the money I could have spent on micro 4/3 cameras thus far that were touted at the time as great and are now discontinued, I'm halfway to an M10. I'm still shooting a Canon 5D-Mk1 and a 20D and I'm just as happy with their results as I was when I bought them. Not trading my 911 on a Mini-Cooper S either...even though the latter gets better gas mileage and has Bluetooth connectivity 😉

 

[Godfrey]

Exactly! Most non-photography people don't know Leica (well, besides maybe gold diggers and old men). Only photo / camera geeks pull out the status thing when talking of these cameras.

I think it's all envy. They don't have the money to afford them, so they must be hoity-toity toys for the rich.

I don't have the money to afford them, but I'm willing to sell my mother's declined years to get a Leica because it's a camera I like to use... ;-)

 

[jsrockit]

Not sure if its envy. There are many things I right off as rich guy stuff, but am not jealous of...

Let's face it... if you think DSLRs are the best cameras on the market for your needs and truly like that form factor, then a M9 at $7,000 must really seem nuts.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Let's face it...if the Fuji X-pro1 performs well, then an M9 at USD 7,000 is nuts. At least to me, especially when considering that the market will soon offer a number of M-mount adapters.

 

[Roger Hicks]

No problem with that. A pair of jeans can be a status symbol, or an island in Greece. Or whatever. A Leica can certainly be a status symbol.

Leica is however not only a status symbol. It is a tool for photography. A digital Leica is a very capable camera that is pretty much the only option for anyone who wants to shoot a digital rangefinder camera. There are such people. And they do care about their photography, although the "status symbol" crowd often tries to imply otherwise. Whether these people are masters or just average pros or hobbyists has very little significance. What matters is what works best for them. We all need to live with the market we have.

Quite. But there are those who don't want to believe this.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jsrockit]

Let's face it...if the Fuji X-pro1 performs well, then an M9 at USD 7,000 is nuts. At least to me, especially when considering that the market will soon offer a number of M-mount adapters.

Well, the Fuji and the M are two totally different cameras...so insert most any other camera in place of where you put Fuji X-pro1 and we could have this argument.

My point is that if you want a manual focus, mechnical rangefinder, full frame digital camera with old school controls and a minimal menu... there is still only one camera that fits that category. To those people, $7,000 is a lot, but it is worth it.

To anyone else who doesn't want that and is only concerned with putting their legacy glass on just any rangefinder-like body, the M9 seems crazy.

 

[f6andBthere]

I guess it's hard for people to equate value for money with the M9 ... because it's not if you're being totally honest with yourself whether you can afford it easily or not.

Like jsrocket says ... you buy it if it's worth it to you personally to own a $7000.00 full frame digital rangefinder ... and let's face it, plenty have!

 

[tbarker13]

We should draw a distinction between Leica today and Leica in the pre-digital era.
There was a time when Leica was much more aggressive in the pro market. They were routinely found in the hands of photojournalists.
That's just not the case today. Are there PJs out there using them? Sure there are. But only in very limited numbers. The exceptions that prove the rule.

I don't really think its fair to call an M9 a status symbol. I certainly didn't think of my M8s as status symbols when I bought them. But I certainly have grown to think of digital Ms as luxury items - which, as far as I can tell, is exactly what Leica wants them to be.

In the end, though, it's a little optimistic to compare the potential life span of an M9 to that of any of film M. That's like comparing the lifespan of a manual typewriter to that of a Radioshack TRS-80 Model 100 "laptop" made in the 1980s. It was state-of-the-art at the time. But I wonder how much luck you'd have trying to keep one of those running for 40-50 years.
These aren't just cameras we are buying these days. They are computers with lens mounts. That gives them an added element of vulnerability.

 

[gdi]

Let's face it...if the Fuji X-pro1 performs well, then an M9 at USD 7,000 is nuts. At least to me, especially when considering that the market will soon offer a number of M-mount adapters.

Considering that Fuji in place of an M9 at all is nuts. At least to me, but I may consider it over those little Sonys.

 

[jaapv]

Hmm, Leica, status and posers..Is the existence of trophy wives an argument against matrimony?

 

[flyalf]

The M9 is not a old girl, but a youngster that needs to mature into the full potential.

Dust removal, a bit more customization buttons, dedicated ISO button and a bit quicker boot-up and shuffling of data, and there we are.

 

[Godfrey]

Not sure if its envy. There are many things I right off as rich guy stuff, but am not jealous of...

Let's face it... if you think DSLRs are the best cameras on the market for your needs and truly like that form factor, then a M9 at $7,000 must really seem nuts.

I was speaking tongue-in-cheek, actually. I don't care what other people think of the M, or the Fuji for that matter.

I looked at the Fuji and think it's a fine camera. But it's not what I want to shoot with. I picked the M9 as the camera I want to work with without regard to it's specific performance or price ... I like it because it works the way I want a camera to work. I'm sure it will do fine on performance, regardless of what else might also do well or cost less.

I'm lucky to have the means to afford it easily. If I didn't, it wouldn't bother me a bit: I have other cameras which do a great job too. Including an SLR and a mirrorless TTL camera.

In the end, the goal is to do photography. That's more important to me than any camera.

 

[jsrockit]

I picked the M9 as the camera I want to work with without regard to it's specific performance or price ... I like it because it works the way I want a camera to work. I'm sure it will do fine on performance, regardless of what else might also do well or cost less.

I'm lucky to have the means to afford it easily. If I didn't, it wouldn't bother me a bit: I have other cameras which do a great job too. Including an SLR and a mirrorless TTL camera.

In the end, the goal is to do photography. That's more important to me than any camera.

Exactly!!! 🙂

 

[dave lackey]

Hmm, Leica, status and posers..Is the existence of trophy wives an argument against matrimony?

Good one, Jaapv! Hilarious and true all at the same time.😉

 

[PatrickONeill]

imo, the fuji is more of a danger to the mid-range, crop body dSLR cameras, high end p&s cameras and to μ43'rds camera than it is a threat to the M9.

not because the M9 is Better, but because it is Different. the M9 retains the core fundamentals of what makes a rangefinder so unique. the X pro doesn't. so what?

honestly. take you pick, make your pictures. have some joy.