Thoughts on the Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta IV

[largedrink]

I have an opportunity to buy a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta IV with Tessar lens for the equivalent of US$390 and am interested in whether this is a good deal, and if this camera likely to hold or gain value? Recent auction sales for this camera seem to be in that region.

I inspected the camera yesterday, it’s grubby but in good working condition with working light meter, sound bellows and aligned rangefinder. I was always interested in either a Super Ikonta III or IV and favoured the III. I already have a Mess Ikonta (uncoupled rangefinder, with Tessar), not to mention quite a few other quality folders. The Super Ikonta IV feels more solid in construction compared to the Mess Ikonta and would make a nice addition to my collection, but presumably the photographic results will be the same as the Mess.

 

[ellisson]

One problem I and others have reported with the Super Ikonta IV is film transport with modern films that have thinner backings. Irregular spacing with overlapping or nearly overlapping image frames can occur. I believe the problem was greatest at the beginning of the roll. You can find some work-arounds such as taping a 2 inch length of used backing paper or similar thickness paper to the leader when loading a roll in the camera. This adds some thickness to the film taken up on the spool. Apparently, the problem results from how the camera counts/sets the frames: It is based on the number of revolutions of the film spool, for which the thicker films were used in the design.
Some users report that FOMA/Arista films retain thicker backing and bypass this transport problem.

 

[DwF]

I also have the Mess Ikonta 524 and really enjoy using that camera as much as any coupled rangefinder I've had from Zeiss or Voigtlander (the Bessa II). I know it is harder to find clean examples of these older cameras, noting you said this one was "grubby". I would personally wait for a clean copy to show, even if you have to pay a bit more. I can't speak to the film transport issue but that would give me pause as well. On that note, the Super Ikonta A (531) might be one to consider, really portable and fun to use.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
David

 

[largedrink]

One problem I and others have reported with the Super Ikonta IV is film transport with modern films that have thinner backings. Irregular spacing with overlapping or nearly overlapping image frames can occur. I believe the problem was greatest at the beginning of the roll. You can find some work-arounds such as taping a 2 inch length of used backing paper or similar thickness paper to the leader when loading a roll in the camera. This adds some thickness to the film taken up on the spool. Apparently, the problem results from how the camera counts/sets the frames: It is based on the number of revolutions of the film spool, for which the thicker films were used in the design.
Some users report that FOMA/Arista films retain thicker backing and bypass this transport problem.

Thanks this is good to know.

 

[largedrink]

I also have the Mess Ikonta 524 and really enjoy using that camera as much as any coupled rangefinder I've had from Zeiss or Voigtlander (the Bessa II). I know it is harder to find clean examples of these older cameras, noting you said this one was "grubby". I would personally wait for a clean copy to show, even if you have to pay a bit more. I can't speak to the film transport issue but that would give me pause as well. On that note, the Super Ikonta A (531) might be one to consider, really portable and fun to use.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
David

Thanks David. I am really impressed with the results I get from my Mess Ikonta 524. I am quite sure that the Super Ikonta IV I mention will clean up beautifully, most of the dirt looks to be superficial and on the exterior. The lens may need an internal clean, and possibly the viewfinder window too. Unsure whether I can talk the price down by mentioning these things, worth a try!

 

[Dan Daniel]

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[largedrink]

I've had both a III and a IV with the Tessar. For frame spacing, a small post-it note attached to the backing at the beginning gave the bump needed to not get overlapping frames. The rangefinder patch is not a Leica but quite usable. I preferred the III because I don't use camera meters and the III is cleaner.


With glasses, I had problems seeing the full frame, but also the viewfinder is a bit crude in the first place (not uncommon for most any folder viewfinder, so you are probably quite familiar with this). So I went back to TLRs. A matter of personal preference. The IV and III are well made and sturdy. $390 seems about right, but also maybe a bit high if the camera is grubby. Sometimes chrome doesn't clean up as smoothly as we might expect, so I would check this out (maybe bring along an alcohol wipe and do a test?).

Thank you Dan. I am confident the chrome parts are in excellent condition. The viewfinder window was particularly dirty outside and I couldn't tell if it was dirty on the inside too, but usually with old folders that is the case. I have had a lot of success with cleaning folders and when the viewfinders are clear they are much better to use. Zeiss folders seem to be the most difficult to work with though, so many tiny screws!

The lens had a few smudges. Also the slow shutter speeds are inoperable. But other than these things the camera looks fine. My only barrier to buying it is the price, as I tend to look for bargains to reduce any GAS guilt.

 

[Dan Daniel]

xxxxxxxxxx

 

[largedrink]

The fast speeds worked well; the slow speeds just hung. I could encourage them by winding on the shutter again. Once I recall the shutter did not pop back to fully closed position. I will factor in the cost of a shutter CLA and make an offer based on that and the general condition, and see how I go. I have never serviced a shutter before, other than adding a drop of lighter fluid which can be enough to free up stickiness sometimes but in this case it seems a CLA would be a good investment.

 

[DwF]

Sounds like you are on to something with this one. And yes, dirt or grubbiness varies and it can often be cleaned away. Good luck with the negotiation, purchase and project! There is a real charm to this model for sure. 🙂

David

 

[shorelineae]

I haven't used the Zeiss, I am sure it is a great camera, but I want to bring to your attention the Russian 6x6 Iskra (1). I recently got a serviced one from from Oleg at okvintagecamera.com, and my search for a painless, inexpensive 6x6 folder is over. It cost me around $160-ish. It has auto-stop, a sharp lens, double exposure prevention, a fair-sized viewfinder and visible RF patch.

Do have a look at it before you finalize.

 

[Wouter2]

You might consider to cla not only the shutter, but the rangefinder mechanism as well, and lubricate the transport mechanism. I have one of these, took out the rangefinder and put it in an ultrasonic cleaner wit a bit of dishwasher soap for 2 minutes. Dried with a hairdryer to avoid stains. No touching on any of the surfaces. Came out sparkling with a really good and clear rangefinder image. You can cla the shutter yourself as well, but that requires good preparation, tools and patience. Chris Sherlock has a playlist on ikonta shutters.

 

[DwF]

You might consider to cla not only the shutter, but the rangefinder mechanism as well, and lubricate the transport mechanism. I have one of these, took out the rangefinder and put it in an ultrasonic cleaner wit a bit of dishwasher soap for 2 minutes. Dried with a hairdryer to avoid stains. No touching on any of the surfaces. Came out sparkling with a really good and clear rangefinder image. You can cla the shutter yourself as well, but that requires good preparation, tools and patience. Chris Sherlock has a playlist on ikonta shutters.

Wouter2, That work has to be so rewarding!

From when I was a kid taking things apart and one time trying to assemble a Heathkit Radio, or disassemble and tune a Briggs and Stratton engine on a mini-bike (which I got pretty good at) I realized I didn't have the patience to slow and be organized in dealing with something with so many small parts. I haven't dared take on a shutter project. Respooling 120-620 seems more my speed!

On your recommendation, I had a look at one of Chris Sherlock's videos and while not ready to work on one of my Compur Rapids, I might look for an old assembly to work on as practice.

Thanks for the suggestion.

David

 

[Wouter2]

Wouter2, That work has to be so rewarding!

From when I was a kid taking things apart and one time trying to assemble a Heathkit Radio, or disassemble and tune a Briggs and Stratton engine on a mini-bike (which I got pretty good at) I realized I didn't have the patience to slow and be organized in dealing with something with so many small parts. I haven't dared take on a shutter project. Respooling 120-620 seems more my speed!

On your recommendation, I had a look at one of Chris Sherlock's videos and while not ready to work on one of my Compur Rapids, I might look for an old assembly to work on as practice.

Thanks for the suggestion.

David

David, working on shutter is like a meditation. Once you get into the concentration it's fun and rewarding and shuts out the environment. It's just you and the machine haha. And very rewarding when it works out ok. I started like that as well, a couple of discarded compurs and prontors to practice on. Once you get the hang of it it's complex, but definitely doable. Success!

 

[DwF]

Thank you for that, I'm definitely encouraged to give it a try.

David

 

[largedrink]

You might consider to cla not only the shutter, but the rangefinder mechanism as well, and lubricate the transport mechanism. I have one of these, took out the rangefinder and put it in an ultrasonic cleaner wit a bit of dishwasher soap for 2 minutes. Dried with a hairdryer to avoid stains. No touching on any of the surfaces. Came out sparkling with a really good and clear rangefinder image. You can cla the shutter yourself as well, but that requires good preparation, tools and patience. Chris Sherlock has a playlist on ikonta shutters.

Thanks Wouter2, one day I intend to upskill and learn to CLA shutters - I haven't had the quality time available to do that recently. With many camera repairs I find I need a long period of quiet uninterrupted time in order to improve my success rate (and take lots of photos during the process). Chris Sherlock is local, he has repaired a few items for me in the past and it's great that he is publishing repair videos so others can pick up these skills.

 

[Wouter2]

Thanks Wouter2, one day I intend to upskill and learn to CLA shutters - I haven't had the quality time available to do that recently. With many camera repairs I find I need a long period of quiet uninterrupted time in order to improve my success rate (and take lots of photos during the process). Chris Sherlock is local, he has repaired a few items for me in the past and it's great that he is publishing repair videos so others can pick up these skills.

I've learned a lot from Chris and he is one of my gurus although he doesn't know it. But something else. I see you're living in Wellington. I once had a friend from there, she lived in Amsterdam 40 years ago. Then went back and never saw her again. Pauline Mary Garrett, must be around 60 now. Does that ring a bell? I'd love to say hello to her.

 

[largedrink]

I've learned a lot from Chris and he is one of my gurus although he doesn't know it. But something else. I see you're living in Wellington. I once had a friend from there, she lived in Amsterdam 40 years ago. Then went back and never saw her again. Pauline Mary Garrett, must be around 60 now. Does that ring a bell? I'd love to say hello to her.

Wouter2 the name doesn't ring any bells unfortunately. I'd suggest a search on Facebook if you use it (I don't).

I haven't returned to the shop with the Super Ikonta IV yet, will do so on the weekend. I got the feeling last time that the proprietor is not interested in bargaining - he mentioned he paid a decent amount for the camera too.

 

[EddieJ]

I've had both a III and a IV with the Tessar. For frame spacing, a small post-it note attached to the backing at the beginning gave the bump needed to not get overlapping frames. The rangefinder patch is not a Leica but quite usable. I preferred the III because I don't use camera meters and the III is cleaner.


With glasses, I had problems seeing the full frame, but also the viewfinder is a bit crude in the first place (not uncommon for most any folder viewfinder, so you are probably quite familiar with this). So I went back to TLRs. A matter of personal preference. The IV and III are well made and sturdy. $390 seems about right, but also maybe a bit high if the camera is grubby. Sometimes chrome doesn't clean up as smoothly as we might expect, so I would check this out (maybe bring along an alcohol wipe and do a test?).

I had a Super Ikonta IV Tessar which I traded (with appropriate cash deficit) on a Rolleiflex 2.8E back in early 80's. I loved my Ikonta IV and the many trips abroad with her (still have the tranny's + B&W negs).

Back to late 2020 and once out of lockdown I managed to find at my LFCS a very clean Super Ikonta III Tessar. Very familiar clunk opening, patch focusing, *guesstamation of the viewfinder, cock the lens - depress the shutter ... like riding a bicycle (muscle memory)

And I remembered to use post-it notes at the start of the roll to negate any frame overlaps.