Mason Galindo
Newbie
4 years of speculation and still no product? WHY?!
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
I bought a ZM with a 40mm/1.4 CV lens a few months later. Knowing and double verifying that the ZM framelines are loose (~85%); and under TomA's kind advisement, I had immediately filed down one of the bayonet claws to bring up 35mm frame lines (took 10 minutes)...a tight, almost 100% coverage Nikon F2 style.
Having played with The ZM for a year and a half, I might add the following thoughts:
The ZM finder is at least one f-stop brighter than my M2. Its far better eye-relief encourages users to be sloppy...hence perhaps comments that the patch might disappear unless you center your eye in the viewfinder.
The RF has a longer "reach" than Leica...next city block is not yet infinity, more like across the harbour and then some. I mounted my Nikon DG2 2X eyepiece magnifier (same thread size as the ZM) and carefully checked. Perhaps that was why some thought their RF is out of adjustment.
For the long-awaited ZMd, the only viewfinder suggestion I would now make is that Zeiss at least somehow adds an internal eyepiece magnifier in the viewfinder...the hump in the top plate is the perfect location to place a rotating control ring.
Hell, Zeiss could even develop a one-frameline zoom viewfinder starting at 0.5X (good for a 25mm lens) and ending up at 1.4X (making the viewfinder 1:1 and good for 85mm lens or longer). Nikon did an external one decades ago. Contax G/GII even had one built-in...didn't Zeiss have a hand in it?
"Full frame" might be the new holy grail, but digital format size can also be measured in terms of pixels [Leica S2 style]. If 3000 x 4500 is enough, then a 6 micron pixel chip will become 18x27mm (a crop factor of 1.333 for lens focal lengths, sounds familiar?).
If Sony [whose partnership with Zeiss was renewed recently for another 5 years] will play ball, didn't Sony make a full-frame sensor for its A-900 and said to have supplied that chip [modified by Nikon of course] to the D3X?
A "neutral" party Kodak has for a year now a 50Mp 6 micron chip (8,304 x 6,220)...big enough to be re-cut into two 4,152 x 6,200 chip; and full frame in physical size. I am sure Kodak will never build a Chinon-made camera using that chip; and will welcome a big enough purchase committment...Leica M8 style.
Zeiss is optics...for far over a century. Micro lens [as used in the Leica M8] is merely applied simple optics. Zeiss will do well working in that area...if it cannot come up with an even better solution.
Speaking of external LCD, I am sure an iPhone App could be developed...all it's doing is reading the camera SD chip directly as if it was the iPhone internal flash memory.
If a built-in LCD must be provided, the newest OLED display panels are far thiner, already used on a few new camera/devices and soon big TV's. The sensor/circuit/LCD package could then be as thin as 10mm...protruding from the ZM body a mere 4~5mm. I can live with that.
Adding an "A" setting in the current ISO dial is no hardship.
The current ZM exposure counter can be replaced with a LCD "exposure/battery remaining" display. If the film winder is indeed discarded, the available space can be used for an easier-to-read combined white balance, digital format and exposure/battery window RD1 style. [Hell, the battery remaining window could even be placed at the current film cartridge window.]
AND, a master on/off switch is already built-in in the ZM.
The Leica M8 proved a manual focus digital camera can be accepted...why not then a ZMd with the current lenses.
I have high hope that Zeiss might answer our prayer at Photokina 2010.
italy74
Well-known
* Few buttons and immediate commands over WB / ISO / quality / EV and flash.
* viewfinder able to vary its magnification or additional lens to get a 1:1 for tele.
* 13.5 MP
* FF
* more IQ and high ISO capabilities than MP
* weather sealed and robust body
* reasonable price
Fitting all this within an existing Ikon shouldn't be that difficult for Zeiss engineers.. none will bother them even if the whole size would increase 5mm per side, right?
* viewfinder able to vary its magnification or additional lens to get a 1:1 for tele.
* 13.5 MP
* FF
* more IQ and high ISO capabilities than MP
* weather sealed and robust body
* reasonable price
Fitting all this within an existing Ikon shouldn't be that difficult for Zeiss engineers.. none will bother them even if the whole size would increase 5mm per side, right?
Scandium
Member
My ideal ZI digital would have these characteristics:
Minimum Requirements
* Retain same basic body design and layout as current ZI.
* Full frame sensor
* 13-15 megapixels. Not larger than 15 megapixels.
* Removable IR cut filter or better yet, no IR filter.
* No LCD on back. Saves power, wiring, weight , and size. The film ZI doesn't have one and I don't miss it. ;-)
* Retain thumb advance to arm the shutter. Saves power, weight, and size. IMO an RF doesn't benefit much from motorized advance.
* Place dial control on top plate for white balance. Current ISO dial is fine.
* Add dial control for Raw or jpeg record modes to bottom plate. Perhaps under a cover.
* Add mono, color selection switch to top plate.
* Use a common Li-Ion rechargeable battery.
Options
* Mono only sensor, no Bayer filter array
* I agree with Dino about the variable magnification finder. Canon had that on some of their RFs. I'm not sure why it disappeared and no one else used it.
Minimum Requirements
* Retain same basic body design and layout as current ZI.
* Full frame sensor
* 13-15 megapixels. Not larger than 15 megapixels.
* Removable IR cut filter or better yet, no IR filter.
* No LCD on back. Saves power, wiring, weight , and size. The film ZI doesn't have one and I don't miss it. ;-)
* Retain thumb advance to arm the shutter. Saves power, weight, and size. IMO an RF doesn't benefit much from motorized advance.
* Place dial control on top plate for white balance. Current ISO dial is fine.
* Add dial control for Raw or jpeg record modes to bottom plate. Perhaps under a cover.
* Add mono, color selection switch to top plate.
* Use a common Li-Ion rechargeable battery.
Options
* Mono only sensor, no Bayer filter array
* I agree with Dino about the variable magnification finder. Canon had that on some of their RFs. I'm not sure why it disappeared and no one else used it.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
It seems my preference of no built-in LCD was much accepted in this thread...rather than being pounced on by histogram/chimp's in another thread.:bang:
When a CCD chip reached full-frame, a truce will happen, as is now between Canon, Nikon and Sony. AND, if Zeiss also join the peace talks by using its partner Sony's full-frame chip (as might have also been adopted by Nikon), then Leica is behind...again; unless the M9 at least keeps up.
Elsewhere, Kodak and Dalsa have also unofficially suggested a truce with their 50~60Mp chips, now reaching the 645 coverage.
What is interesting is that the native pixel size in such truces is 6 microns...sort of the new standard grain size in digital imaging.
Kodak started at 9 microns in its now ancient 16Mp chip. Imagine if Kodak will now cut its larger chips into OEM standard sizes, from 645 to 135 to APS or even smaller...and available to any manufacturer or individual customers.
Leica/Kodak's work in making a chip good enough (by off-setting micro lenses) is nanotechnology, more of a Kodak cup of tea...also Zeiss. Off-setting single element micro lenses is simple optics...in relation to what Zeiss had managed to do in its illustrious history and mostly unpublicized nano-optical technology.
Perhaps Kodak will have the last laugh.
When a CCD chip reached full-frame, a truce will happen, as is now between Canon, Nikon and Sony. AND, if Zeiss also join the peace talks by using its partner Sony's full-frame chip (as might have also been adopted by Nikon), then Leica is behind...again; unless the M9 at least keeps up.
Elsewhere, Kodak and Dalsa have also unofficially suggested a truce with their 50~60Mp chips, now reaching the 645 coverage.
What is interesting is that the native pixel size in such truces is 6 microns...sort of the new standard grain size in digital imaging.
Kodak started at 9 microns in its now ancient 16Mp chip. Imagine if Kodak will now cut its larger chips into OEM standard sizes, from 645 to 135 to APS or even smaller...and available to any manufacturer or individual customers.
Leica/Kodak's work in making a chip good enough (by off-setting micro lenses) is nanotechnology, more of a Kodak cup of tea...also Zeiss. Off-setting single element micro lenses is simple optics...in relation to what Zeiss had managed to do in its illustrious history and mostly unpublicized nano-optical technology.
Perhaps Kodak will have the last laugh.
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slungu
Established
I still think that the new M9 should be proof enough that a FF rangefinder can be done. So what is Zeiss actually doing ? Do they consider that the digital rangefinder market is such a small market that it makes no sense to invest in it ? That would be like letting Leica eat all the cake. But I think the cake would be bigger with a nice Zeiss camera placed price wise below the M. I for one would like to see some competition here, since it would make it possible to afford a newer technology and not to wait until the M10 comes around. I think they should come up with something now, when improvement is still possible and you still can get a generation or two out, after that, the market will be back to lenses...