Three Leitz Summars - not quite the same...

[jonmanjiro]

... in how they render images. After reading in another thread about how good the IQ of a Leitz Summar 50/2 can be when in good condition, I did a bit of experimenting for myself. For those who may be interested, here's the results. Lens A, a recently overhauled Summar in good condition did very well IMO. Makes me wonder how much single coating on this old Leitz lens would add to its performance. Surely not that much...?!

Lens A - recently overhauled uncoated Summar 50/2 with repainted interior and good condition optics, including the front element
Lens B - uncoated Summar 50/2 with some internal paint degradation and some light scratches (aka cleaning marks) on the front element but otherwise good condition optics
Lens C - uncoated Summar 50/2 with some internal paint degradation and a lot of light scratches (aka cleaning marks) on the front element but otherwise good condition optics

These scans are exactly as they came out of my scanner. I haven't added any contrast or sharpness.

Lens A @ f/2

Lens B @ f/2

Lens C @ f/2

Lens A @ f/4

Lens B @ f/4

Lens C @ f/4

 

[fireblade]

How much you want for lens A? 😀

 

[jonmanjiro]

How much you want for lens A? 😀

Are you kidding 😱

Lens A is the one I should have bought without messing around with Lens B and Lens C! I purchased them in the order C > B > A :bang:

 

[splitimageview]

Now, could you see if the files from B can be tweaked to match the contrast of A ?

I have an uncoated Summitar that is in amazingly good condition for its age (1940) with no fog and no cleaning marks...best lens of its age I've come across. Looking forward to seeing how it performs...

 

[Vincent.G]

Somehow I prefer lens B !

 

[jonmanjiro]

this is why WE LOVE You Jon... your crazy ! 😀

lol thanks Helen 😀

Somehow I prefer lens B !

I suspected someone would say that, Vincent! I think even lens C has its uses 😉

Now, could you see if the files from B can be tweaked to match the contrast of A ?

Oh I've already done that. Even the files from lens C can be tweaked to a similar contrast level. I haven't shown it here, but the main thing that cannot be fixed in post processing is flare from light sources in the frame. Lens A is more flare resistant than Lens B, which is more flare resistant than Lens C. Some experimental shots using a friend's Monochrom showed this clearly, but alas I don't have those files.

 

[Kate-the-Great]

Nice test, thanks for sharing! I'm amazed at how much the condition of the front elements affect the images, wow. I wish I'd hung onto my Summar.

Re: correcting for flare; the newest version of Lightroom actually has some provision for that- there's a "Dehaze" slider down in the "Effects" section that does a fair job of helping out with flarey/damaged lenses.

A sample from a 20mm f/4 AI-Nikkor with a badly scratched rear element, same image with same postprocessing except for the "Dehaze" option

Uncorrected:

Corrected

 

[IdealCamera]

To me it seems that the key factor here is not the absence of scratches, but rather the repainted interior.

 

[uhoh7]

Results make me wonder if the idea: "Old glass, low contrast" is mostly a matter of lens condition.

 

[MikeL]

Jon, I had two summars with good barrels and clean glass. One was coated. I compared both and couldn't see a difference on color film in different conditions.

 

[k__43]

To me it seems that the key factor here is not the absence of scratches, but rather the repainted interior.

Yeah that was my thought .. I'd try to get Lens B re-painted.

 

[Dralowid]

IMG_0651 by dralowid, on Flickr

I'd guess that having a Summar coated is probably not worth the considerable expense, even if you could find someone to do it. You'd also need to find an excellent existing example to coat in order to avoid re polishing surfaces which could lead to a poorer performance.

Bear in mind that any coated Summar has been coated post war. This means that it has had professional attention more recently than many a uncoated example. It would also suggest that at some point they have been owned by someone who takes their lenses seriously.

So maybe the good results one gets from a coated Summar are as much a result of their coating as the way in which they have been kept.

Conjecture...

 

[Roger Hicks]

What lens shade(s) were you using? Sorry if you said but I read what you wrote reasonably carefully and didn't see it.

Cheers,

R.

 

[jonmanjiro]

To me it seems that the key factor here is not the absence of scratches, but rather the repainted interior.

Yeah that was my thought ..

That's what I'm leaning towards as well.

Jon, I had two summars with good barrels and clean glass. One was coated. I compared both and couldn't see a difference on color film in different conditions.

Thanks Mike! That confirms my suspicions.

What lens shade(s) were you using?

I didn't use lens hoods on any of the lenses, so in that respect they were all on an even footing. Hoods may have helped, but I was in full shade for these shots so I don't think the difference would have been that much.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . I didn't use lens hoods on any of the lenses, so in that respect they were all on an even footing. Hoods may have helped, but I was in full shade for these shots so I don't think the difference would have been that much.

You might be VERY surprised at how much difference it can make. General ambient and reflected light makes far more difference than most people realize. I base this assertion on very extensive experience of a white painted "infinity cove" studio.

Cheers,

R.

 

[lynnb]

Thanks for the very interesting samples Jon - I think my Summar may be closest to C.

 

[Rayt]

All the Summars I have ever had looked like C and they had nice glass.

 

[splitimageview]

All the Summars I have ever had looked like C and they had nice glass.

How did you inspect the glass?

I have found that a point source light (LED) will reveal pretty much all flaws, even those that won't have any effect on the image. Fog and scratches are often otherwise invisible.

Internal reflections can also seriously reduce contrast. I had a Summaron with beautiful clear glass but the internal paint had flaked off. I sent it to DAG and he reapplied a black matte finish.

 

[FrankS]

How difficult would disassembly be in order to repaint interior?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Somehow I prefer lens B !

Normal choice to me.

I've had non-trashed, but heavily used and uncoated one and coating free gives more details, while afterwards coating gives more contrast, which takes some details away.