Tips for overcoming the average metering on Minolta X-700

[userid0]

Hi guys,

I am a little desperate about the metering in my X-700. I shoot in aperture priority and get lots of over- and underexposed shots depending on how the light situation of the complete frame is.
This seem to have something to do with the fact that the X-700 measures light over the complete frame and does not make a weighing (like 80% middle spot and 20% rest of the frame).
As I don't want to get a new body I wonder if some guys of you have some tips to overcome this issue and tweak the exposure in the right direction.

Any ideas?

Cheers and thanks,
Walter

 

[Pherdinand]

Are you sure your x700 works ok?
I had an x500 and a friend used an x700, we got quite consistent nice exposures except in maybe 5% of the situations that had extreme lighting...

 

[userid0]

Well, I don't know if it is working correctly. I was planning on measuring the shutter speeds to see if everything is in tolerance.
On the other hand i was thinking about checking the measuring system of the X-700 with a handheld lightmeter that i could borrow from a friend but actually I don't know how to operate such a lightmeter.

Any suggestions?

Best,
Walter

 

[Scrambler]

I would also play a bit with the metering. Find a bright source with meter able background: light in a house or similar. Put the light at different parts of the frame while reading the metering. How much effect does the bright spot have if just in the edge of frame, centre, halfway, top, etc.

How does the meter react with strong contrasts? What about a dark patch in a lit scene?

Once you can predict what the meter will do you can correct.

Eg, the Bessa R meter is centre-weighted but as a vertical stripe rather than the usual horizontal. This results in more sky in the metering zone. If this is a problem, you turn the camera to portrait and angle down. Meter and then recompose.

I can't speak for how the X700 behaves. My experience is only with older centre weighted Minoltas. It is supposed to be matrix metering isn't it? Not full frame metering?

 

[colyn]

The X700 is a center weighted system.. so the question is is your meter working properly. If the glue used to bond the meter cell block to the prism has turned yellow with age it will be off...

 

[userid0]

Hi Colyn, thanks for the hint.

I have the feeling I should first check if the metering system is working properly and then decide on whether I have to adjust my shooting or if the failure is on my side.

Do you have a hint on how to check the gluing issue without getting very much into disassembling the x700?

Cheers,
Walter

 

[userid0]

I just found this on Rokkorfiles.com:

"Silicon photocell TTL centre weighted meter, measured at full aperture for normal display, then at taking aperture for automatic exposure calculation, with a second meter for measuring off the film during TTL flash operation. Automatic exposure range EV1 to EV18."

Does that mean, that i have to press the aperture button on the bottom of the lens (the for previewing DoF) to get the right metering? I wonder because when I am in A-mode and turn the aperture, the suggested shutter speed in the viewfinder changes depending on the aperture I set. If i then press the DoF preview button, the shutter speed in the viewfinder changes again. What do I have to take for granted or how do i have to measure correctly?

I now have the feeling that I am making terrible mistakes while operating the camera.

Cheers and thanks for all your advice,
Walter

 

[ronnies]

You don't need to stop down as the lens aperture ring is coupled to the metering tab on the body (about 11 o'clock on the mount as you look at it from the front). That way the body knows what aperture the lens is set to.

The measurement at 'taking aperture' is done after you press the shutter button.

Do you have a manual for the camera ?

Ronnie

 

[VictorM.]

Of course, Butkus has the manual: http://www.cameramanuals.org/minolta_pdf/minolta_x-700.pdf

 

[colyn]

Hi Colyn, thanks for the hint.

I have the feeling I should first check if the metering system is working properly and then decide on whether I have to adjust my shooting or if the failure is on my side.

Do you have a hint on how to check the gluing issue without getting very much into disassembling the x700?

Cheers,
Walter

The only way to check is internal..which means a teardown...

 

[CMur12]

Hi Walter -

I have an X-570 with the same metering system and I use the AEL a lot.

I always scan the scene, moving the camera around to see how much exposure values vary. Then I lock exposure on the reading that I choose as most likely to get me the desired effect. Unless the lighting is very simple, I never trust the meter reading I get from just pointing the camera at the the subject. This works very well for me and I have never used dial-in exposure compensation, as it is slower and more cumbersome. This approach has always provided me well exposed slides.

(I do the same thing to determine exposure with a manual match-needle exposure system, too.)

I don't know if this will apply to your situation, as we can't be sure that your X-700 is functioning properly. However, since the camera is essentially "all electronic", it is more likely that the system would fail outright than just deteriorate as a mechanical system would. As such, I think there is a pretty good chance that the camera is functioning properly.

If you aren't accustomed to this kind of metering system (loosely defined center-weighted metering), which was common at the time the X-700 was in production, you might just need to experiment and learn its performance characteristics.

- Murray

 

[ssmc]

I just found this on Rokkorfiles.com:

"Silicon photocell TTL centre weighted meter, measured at full aperture for normal display, then at taking aperture for automatic exposure calculation, with a second meter for measuring off the film during TTL flash operation. Automatic exposure range EV1 to EV18."

Does that mean, that i have to press the aperture button on the bottom of the lens (the for previewing DoF) to get the right metering? I wonder because when I am in A-mode and turn the aperture, the suggested shutter speed in the viewfinder changes depending on the aperture I set. If i then press the DoF preview button, the shutter speed in the viewfinder changes again. What do I have to take for granted or how do i have to measure correctly?

Normal AE metering on the X-700 calculates the shutter speed based on the light reading and the expected value of the aperture sent by the lens, so naturally it changes when you turn the aperture ring even though the lens is still wide open. The camera makes a final calculation when the lens is stopped down while taking the shot. When you activate the DoF preview, it messes the calculation up and what you see in the display is wrong (this was fixed on the X-570). So you can ignore the changes while operating the DoF preview.

I'm kind of surprised that you're having exposure issues with the X-700; it's a basic CW-average meter and except for a tendency to go for higher shutter speeds in P mode works as you might expect. It makes me think there may be a problem with your particular camera. Checking the metering against another CW-average camera would be helpful.

Scott

 

[Addy101]

Does that mean, that i have to press the aperture button on the bottom of the lens (the for previewing DoF) to get the right metering?

If you have a lens with a DoF preview button, you have a very old lens. Is your lens a MC-lens? If not, it might have no metering coupling 😱

Also, maybe the aperture is slow, making for erratic exposures. Did you try your X700 with different lenses? My X700 is right on the money - either your camera or your lens is broken 🙁

 

[CMur12]

I think userid0 meant that the DoF button is at the bottom of the camera, below the lens. You're right however, Addy101, that some early MC lenses, and perhaps pre-MC lenses, have a stop-down lever on the lens barrel, itself.

MC lenses will work in manual and aperture-priority modes on the X-700. The MD lenses involve a couple of minor modifications to work reliably in shutter-priority and program modes. (They have an extra tab on the aperture ring and the aperture blades were made to shut down quickly without bouncing to allow the final exposure measurement when the shutter is tripped.) I've heard/read that MC lenses will often work in program mode, though perhaps somewhat unpredictably so.

I have both MC and MD lenses, but with an X-570 (only aperture-priority and manual modes) and my SR-Ts, there are, of course, no issues.

- Murray

 

[Ranchu]

I don't think the x700 has the glued cells, that's the SRT series.

 

[userid0]

Hi guys,

thanks for the many replies. I think the idea with measuring around a little and then decide how to expose is a good approach i will try for the next roll. Thanks murray for the tip.

I also just got a handheld light meter from a friend at work and made an immediate test having meter and camera directed to a grey door. With an aperture of f/8 both gave me a shutter speed of 1/15.

I'll do some additional measurements if I find enough differently lit up surfaces (which I probably have to use for measurement as i don't know how big the opening angle of the light meter is and how this compares to the cameras meter setting).

Scott, thanks for the hint. DoF button mistery solved! 🙂

I am going to a festival here in Dresden tomorrow and will shoot one or two rolls there. Lets see how the new techniques will affect the exposure.
I keep you posted.

Cheers and thanks,
Walter

 

[Pherdinand]

X-700 metering should be quite accurate. Not only on grey doors 🙂
As i wrote above, there might be a problem with the camera's electronics- or, indeed, the lens-.
You should check against the handheld meter (or a digital camera is even better - there you'll see what the resulting shot is and decide whether the metering of the digicam was OK) , for a typical shooting scene.

X-700 had atad more electronics than the contemporary cameras (a tad too much, in my oppinion) which after many years he can't handle🙂 some capacitors get fried in it which stops the camera working. It could be you have some part that starts failing... not trying to scare you but it could be.

 

[userid0]

Hi guys,

short update. I just measured a little bit at different spots within my flat and I actually get quite accurate measurements from the camera when compared to the light meter. I get a little different measurements when i change lenses. With a 28mm e.g. I get 1/15 shutter speed and if I attach my 50mm then its down half a step to in between 1/15 and 1/8. The measurements fit relatively good with the light meter when I have the wide angle attached.

Only thing I have to check is, if shutter speeds are done correctly at the shutter but therefore I need a little bit of electronics and i want to have the camera empty. Just have a few shots on a new roll of Tri-X.

Let's see...

Cheers,
Walter

 

[userid0]

Btw: Does a UV Filter on the 50mm change the metering that much? I didn't think so before. What do you mean?

Walter

 

[farlymac]

Best to make sure you are using the proper battery, too. Two SR44, or one 3v Lithium.

PF