Tired of the Leica Marketing experts

[Ororaro]

Come on, show us! You used the M4-P finally? Good choice!

The problem with Leica is I love holding those damn sexy cameras so much I go through film like crazy. I scan some but fail to print. Photography was a 50%-50% shoot-print activity but since I'm shooting Leica it's become something like 95%-5%.

There is, after all, the pleasure of owning and touching a Leica. Hard to put a price tag on that special feeling and all what it causes (like shooting more, loving the craft even more...). There is a price for that, too.

 

[jbf]

Not too bad Maddoc. 🙂 I do usually ten rolls in a week... and thats only developing on tuesday and thursdays...

You have a five reel tank at all? Quite handy.

 

[jbf]

There is, after all, the pleasure of owning and touching a Leica. Hard to put a price tag on that special feeling and all what it causes (like shooting more, loving the craft even more...). There is a price for that, too.

You definately got the part right about pleasure of owning and touching a leica.

Even though I'm really happy with what I got, i still wish I had an m6 (or 7. hah).

 

[Ororaro]

You definately got the part right about pleasure of owning and touching a leica.

Even though I'm really happy with what I got, i still wish I had an m6 (or 7. hah).

Whooo, you're dangerously approaching a M6 Versus M7 Versus MP heated debate. Be careful now! 😉

 

[maddoc]

Not too bad Maddoc. 🙂 I do usually ten rolls in a week... and thats only developing on tuesday and thursdays...

You have a five reel tank at all? Quite handy.

I only have a three reel tank .... 😱 Well, since it is snowing like hell again here, I could start developing this night 🙂

 

[Didier]

"Leica Marketing"? Which marketing?
😕 😕 😕

 

[Ororaro]

"Leica Marketing"? Which marketing?
😕 😕 😕

There is the NikonHSMisticwaldemar, for example?

 

[MikeL]

I wish I had that S2.

 

[Ororaro]

I owned the 7000, I was 15, it was new. super sluggish camera. My cousin gave it to me.
I purchased the SL used (yeah, I know), but it was still cheaper then any used Maxxum (7000i in this instance). Hated the whole AF and modernity thing, which is why I chose the Leica next to my manual Minolta XG-M. I later went with Nikon D2H and only then sold the SL, when I kinda found that old manual mechanical feeling in a DSLR. Two years later I jumped into the M wagon after having owned a Bessa R, which made me fall in love with rangefinder shooting.

I'm not sure how all this is relevant to the discussion, though.

 

[Ororaro]

I'm starting to know the feeling. Only 32 but since I stopped smoking I gained this belly that just won't go away, stopped wanting to party all the time and so on. The wife is happy about it all but she's being selfish. I'm debating starting to smoke again or take energy pills and lie to myself that tea really has benefits. All in all, the Vertigo has started, I am feeling it.

 

[Krosya]

By the way, I am a marketing expert. I do hang around here.

I have an M8. I could buy 100 M8's tomorrow if I wanted them. It's not a big deal for me. I have plenty of pennies.

Thats nice. Could you buy one for me than - with all ur money and connections? Pretty please. :angel: It'll even be urs - I'll just have it for "unspecified time". But as soon as you want it back - I'll ship it right to you, honest. 😉

But seriously, even if you can buy 100 M8's tomorrow, whats the point of saying it here? To rub it in? To show people how much money you have?
My question is - what can you do with your M8? Do you have some photos to show?

 

[Hates_]

If every average Joe would start owning Ferraris, I know I'd stop lusting for one.

What's wrong with owning the best, even if everyone else can afford the same? Don't you lust after Ferraris because they make the best cars, or is it just for one-up-manship/exclusivity/etc?

 

[Roger Hicks]

Many of us must heartily agree with the original post.

I have never forgotten the etymology of 'expert' as it was imparted to me at school. It comes from 'ex', a has-been, and 'spurt', a drip under pressure.

The Ferrari comparison is interesting, because I've never fancied a Ferrari. A Bristol, yes. A late 20s/early 30s Bentley, yes. But not a Ferrari. Not my style.

Interesting, too, that you don't get anything like as many complaints that Linhofs, Alpas and Gandolfis are too expensive.

Personally, I think Canon DSLRs are too expensive. All that money for a big, ugly lump that will be obsolete in a year or two? If you're a newspaper, they might make some sense. For a hobbyist? Can't see it myself.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[breathstealer]

Personally, I think Canon DSLRs are too expensive. All that money for a big, ugly lump that will be obsolete in a year or two? If you're a newspaper, they might make some sense. For a hobbyist? Can't see it myself.

I'll never understand the people who say that DSLRs are too easily obsoleted. I think of all people on the Internet, RFF members should understand best the idea of being happy with gear that gets you pictures, and not being caught up with the latest gear. If last last generation's DSLR gets me good pictures (and they do! The Canon 350D is still very usable, even though it's been replaced by the 400D and 450D), then of course I'm still going to use it. Just like how you don't throw out an "obsolete" IIIc when you buy an M3. If last last generation's DSLR doesn't get good pictures, then you should not have bought it. If last last generation's DSLR is inconvenient for taking pictures, and the new one is easier to control, the upgrade is just as justified as buying an M3 over a IIIc for the lever wind.

As for the original topic, I think attempts at marketing for Leica are pretty much inevitable on a site like this. Lots of people here really love Leica, but are worried about its future viability. Whether these worries are valid or not, I still don't find it unreasonable that potential alternative courses of action are discussed - just like how you try and second guess the coach of your favorite sports team after suffering a loss.

 

[detzie]

Well, you see - you agreed Fiat should not sell Ferraris for $39,000.
I don't think any marketing expert ever suggested they sell the M8 for $500,
Many of them simply suggested a lower grade product for the masses.
Isn't it the exact same thing? Fiat owns the Ferrari brand name for its luxury cars, and much lower grade cars are their moneymakers.

So you reached the same conclusion without mentioning the 'Leica' name..


P.S.
I have nothing to do with this discussion 🙂
I do not own or plan to own a Leica/Ferrari in the near future.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I'll never understand the people who say that DSLRs are too easily obsoleted.

That was a subsidiary point: my main point was that they're big, heavy and ugly new, and they don't get any smaller, lighter or prettier with age.

Cheers,

R.

 

[ZebGoesZeiss]

Am I the only one that would like to see Leica go under, belly-up, bankrupt? Now - don't get me wrong, decent cameras, great lenses and all that. But a part of me just wants to see them "gone" - simply to see if anything rises from the ashes. I come from a family where three generations have worked as official Leica dealers, and still are (not me, though).

So, to get this remotely on-topic again: Nenad - No, I'm not sick of the marketing threads on Leica. I am however sick about the threads about what makes me/you/him/her sick. Compared to those, the marketing threads are actually rather constructive.

 

[Toby]

That was a subsidiary point: my main point was that they're big, heavy and ugly new, and they don't get any smaller, lighter or prettier with age.

Cheers,

R.

I think what most of this marketing speak adds up to in this modern age is that there is a desire amongst at least some photographers for a smaller, lighter camera that is capable of results equivalent to a DSLR. That in essense is why many of us bought a Leica or a Bessa -we wanted a 'pro spec' compact camera. In the absence of a really elegant digital solution to this problem (GRD and DP-1 not withstanding) we are left with a swathe of people who represent a market but yet have nothing to buy. Hence the endles internet pondering.

 

[rxmd]

Interesting, too, that you don't get anything like as many complaints that Linhofs, Alpas and Gandolfis are too expensive.

Actually you don't get anything like as many people talking about Linhofs, Alpas and Gandolfis in general, so it's difficult to compare.

Leica elicits some kind of special kind of affection. This is usually either positive, or negative, or neutral in an explicitly pronounced way. Here they're quite similar to Ferraris incidentally where you have the same subdivision ("I love them", "I think they're rotten cars", "I've never fancied them and would prefer a Bristol"). The interesting thing is that Leica-bashers and people who say that they don't care about Leica do post about Leica, where they could simply have ignored the whole discussion. I think this shows that Leica as a brand has significant symbolic recognition to generate its own subculture, in which a lot more people participate than those who have or even would like to have a Leica. It's normal in this kind of subculture that you get price discussions, and that you get people complaining about the unwashed masses, and that you get people mentioning how little interest they have, while their interest is apparently sufficient that they feel the need to mention their lack of it, and last not least that you get you get people bothering to analyse things out of a habit instead of doing some productive work, which I'll get back to doing now.

Greetings from Tashkent -

Philipp

 

[rxmd]

they don't get any smaller, lighter or prettier

Actually they have been getting a lot smaller and lighter, and "prettier" cameras are, firstly, a matter of taste and, secondly, of debatable utility. A new camera that you look at instead of through is missing the point ever so slightly. 🙂

Philipp