Tmax Dev/Neopan 1600 - Kindly Help

R

ruben

Guest
Since long time ago I am happily processing Neopan 1600 with Tmax Developer at 4and half minutes for 20 centigrades temperature.

But due to the hot temperatures now I need to process at 24 centigrades and I have no written trial time to base myself

I would appreciate if anybody using both Tmax dev and Neopan 1600 could give me the percentage of time reduction when using the combination at 24 centigrades.

Thanks in advance,
Ruben
 
I am not sure that I fully understand why you have to develop at 24? The temperature difference between L.A. and Jerusalem can't be that much and I develop at 20 degrees every day of the year.

I pour my chemicals into a measuring cup and then place it in the freezer. If it gets colder than 20, no problem, just fill the sink with hot water and put the measuring cup in and gently warm it.

If you really want to do it at 24 degrees, the fuji website recommends a dev time of 3.5 minutes. You can check it out here: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Neopan1600.pdf

I have never tried this combo at this temperature, so I can't say for certain what the results will be.
 
I've tried using water baths to control chemical temperatures, but I always seem to overshoot my mark, so I've taken to just using Ilford's temperature conversion PDF.

Ilord's temperature conversion chart suggests that 4 mins at 20C is equal to 3 mins at 24C. At 3 minutes, you are risking uneven development. Although I've not tried it with Neopan, I've had good luck using Tmax Dev at 1+5 and 1+9 to get longer development times. At 24C I'd try giving it 6 minutes in 1+9.
 
the_jim said:
I am not sure that I fully understand why you have to develop at 24? The temperature difference between L.A. and Jerusalem can't be that much and I develop at 20 degrees every day of the year.

I pour my chemicals into a measuring cup and then place it in the freezer. If it gets colder than 20, no problem, just fill the sink with hot water and put the measuring cup in and gently warm it.

If you really want to do it at 24 degrees, the fuji website recommends a dev time of 3.5 minutes. You can check it out here: http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/Neopan1600.pdf

I have never tried this combo at this temperature, so I can't say for certain what the results will be.
Click to expand...


Hi Jim,

As a matter of fact I have processed tonight two films by 9pm, tmx films. My lab ambient temperature was over 26 centigrades, but colder than at the other places of my home due to its basement like location.

The running water went into 28 centigrades.

In fact, these temperature issues are among the main for which long ago I started to use Tmax dev, at 20 centigrades most of the year, and at 24 refrigerator colded centigrades, at the hotest periods.

Many thanks for the fujifilm link. I am extremely happy their recommended time for Neopan 1600/Tmax dev at 20 centigrades is very very close to mine.

The second highly useful info I have found there, is that Neopan 400 is to be processed at the same times/dev/temperatures as the 1600 - If this proves true in my lab - well... I will be speechless.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So, cannot help you with temperature correction, but would like to ask you: do you have even results with this film and developer (with normal temperature)?

I tried that combination twice with different results, so I gave up on it. Also tried DD-X. I thought the development time is too short for me to maintain consistently, so I am processing Neopan 1600 in D-76 from then on. Well, only did it once, but with reasonable success.

But then again, I rarely need that speed, and typically use Rodinal for anything at 400 and slower.
 
I wasn't lucky with Superpresto (1600PR) + Tmax-dev... Switched to either XTOL or Fuji's Super-Prodol (very cheap) and like the results better. XTOL gives a wider range of tones with this film while Super-Prodol seems to deliver higher contrast.
 
Hi Pitxu,
Due to the Israeli internal market being so small, and the need for darkroom supplyes imposing the rule for steadiness on the user, the options of developers are quite limited.

Diafine is a developer that I have seen some 12 years ago, but not one that is steady imported.

The steady imported ones are some developrs from Kodak, Ilford and Agfa. For reasons of personal convenience (number of rolls) and comfort (liquid solution) I have made Tmax my standard developer.

Now, Mike Goldberg has sold me a litre bottle of Rodinal, which I am confident to handle and fine tune, for Tri-X and Fomapan. I may even compare Rodinal versus Tmax for Neopan 1600, since a use and throw developer is of course more convenient than a reusable one.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
ruben said:
Hi Jim,

....................

Many thanks for the fujifilm link. I am extremely happy their recommended time for Neopan 1600/Tmax dev at 20 centigrades is very very close to mine.

The second highly useful info I have found there, is that Neopan 400 is to be processed at the same times/dev/temperatures as the 1600 - If this proves true in my lab - well... I will be speechless.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...


Well, it is my duty to report that I have been over-optimistic in my spirit and, let's take by the minor side, a bit confused in my thinking.

Fujifilm says that both their Neopans 1600 and 400 have been designed for the same development time, and out of this slogan I almost was to ruin two Neo 400 films, I was going to process together with three Neos 1600.

I have not read the specifications given in the above link to extreme detail, but when reading the specifications for a certain developer, let's say the one I do use - Tmax dev - I can clearly see that the times for Neopan 1600 and Neopan 400 do not coincide at any temperature.

Therefore out of my great respect for Fujifilm company, I must assume that their slogan of the same developing times apply for a ceirtain developer only, which is not of my free time interest to find there, at the info sheet.

After all, if we think it with a cool brain temperature, it should be a big absurd to assume that both films would process at the same times with every developer on Earth.

Even Kodak's declaration of same temperatures with same deverloper for Tmax film at ISO 400 or 800, is in fact a gross mistake.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Ruben,

I would recommend you do as 'the_jim' said and cool your water in the fridge/freezer - cutting your dev time from 4:30 at 20C to 24C is going to bring it down to below 3 minutes and it's not going to be even.

Is there a reason why you didn't try this already?
 
Hi Kully,

The problem is the running water for the final wash, climbing up to 26 centigrades. Therefore I cannot use developer at 20. However, the seazon is changing and a couple of days of local raining (here it brings a noticeable lowering of the temperature) and I will be processing at 20 centigrades. You and Jim are right in that processing for less than 4 minutes is prohibitive.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Ruben,

What problems do you get with the wash being at 26C and the rest 20C? My wash is never at 20C (except for two short periods a year). I'm wondering what I should look for.
 
kully said:
Ruben,

What problems do you get with the wash being at 26C and the rest 20C? My wash is never at 20C (except for two short periods a year). I'm wondering what I should look for.
Click to expand...


According to classic tradition, which I read from David Vestal (google) when a sudden change of temperature of over 4 centigrades takes place, the film will suffer from an effect called "reticulation", which only once happened to me, and I don't remember the temperature differences.

What I saw after the film was dry was a kind of ugly deterioration of film grain towards big and ugly grain pattern.

Now, I can mix cold and hot water but here is the danger that the hot part will suddenly turn into very hot and ruin the film. This danger of sudden change is related to my home plumb and ways of achieving hot water.

Therefore, as a measure of caution I develope film either at 20 or 24 centigrades, according to running water temperature and according to "no reticulation tolerances". I use Tmax developer that is supposed to work ok at 24 centigrades as well.

But some ten years ago, when I used to process film for other photographers, I think I was more dexterous in mixing water and maintaining the mix temperature. At that time Tmax dev was used by me only for Neopan and pushings.

Of course, there are at RFF other folks with greater experience than mine.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ruben said:
According to classic tradition, which I read from David Vestal (google) when a sudden change of temperature of over 4 centigrades takes place, the film will suffer from an effect called "reticulation", which only once happened to me, and I don't remember the temperature differences.

What I saw after the film was dry was a kind of ugly deterioration of film grain towards big and ugly grain pattern.

Now, I can mix cold and hot water but here is the danger that the hot part will suddenly turn into very hot and ruin the film. This danger of sudden change is related to my home plumb and ways of achieving hot water.

Therefore, as a measure of caution I develope film either at 20 or 24 centigrades, according to running water temperature and according to "no reticulation tolerances". I use Tmax developer that is supposed to work ok at 24 centigrades as well.

But some ten years ago, when I used to process film for other photographers, I think I was more dexterous in mixing water and maintaining the mix temperature. At that time Tmax dev was used by me only for Neopan and pushings.

Of course, there are at RFF other folks with greater experience than mine.

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...

Ruben,

I would suggest to use the "Ilford wash" system, which replace the wash under running tap water with the filling of the tank three times, agitating 5 - 10 - 20 times per fill. Saves water, and allows you to fine tune the water temperature for each wash before pouring it into the tank. You can find more info on Ilford's website.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom