Too many problems?

[Bill Clark]

In an episode where the Three Stooges were plumbers:

Arriving at a home, Curly starts pulling, tearing apart, grunting and groaning and yanking on a pipe by the fuse box, he says, "no wonder why they have plumbing problems! There's nothin' but wires in this pipe!"

Same for cameras. Some have problems no matter what brand.

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!

 

[jsrockit]

It's much easier to talk about the technical side. It's a real shame there isn't more discussion about art, there are a number of very talented and, I think, serious photographers posting here on RFF.

I think what people need to realize is that many who post at RFF don't care about Art and photography's relation to it. I do, but I don't expect everyone else to. Photography is used in so many different ways these days.

 

[willie_901]

Camera manufacturers are under extreme financial pressure. The mobile phone camera killed their cash cow. Product managers are required to cut costs. Products are rushed to market. Sometimes third-party suppliers create the problem because they have to cut corners to get their contract(s).

Many brands quickly acknowledge and fix these problems. Some brands stall and stonewall at first... and then fix the issues.

The same thing happens with automobiles (except government safety laws apply) and many other consumer products. Apple just announced a replacement program because of a camera problem for some iPhone 6 (large screen) units.

 

[giellaleafapmu]

I think what people need to realize is that many who post at RFF don't care about Art and photography's relation to it. I do, but I don't expect everyone else to. Photography is used in so many different ways these days.

Well, actually my OP was not really heading that direction...at least not consciously but I agree that it would be nice to see more post related, at least, to technique, if not really to art. If I understand correctly, here there are a variety of people ranging from collector to artist and passing through professional product photographer, photojournalists, nature photographers and who knows what else... I myself have no idea whether any of my pictures could be recognized as "art" and definitively don't feel prepared to talk about art, still I'd rather talk about taking pictures than about defective shutters. In any case, dependable equipment is important for everyone, no matter whether you are taking a holidays picture, recording a political meeting or making art: when the shutter jams or the film get teared apart or the memory card loose all the pictures it is a sad day. When you think you have spent a couple of thousand dollars in your equipment it is even sadder.

GLF

 

[giellaleafapmu]

Film cameras had similar kinds of problems. We tend to forget that since film camera introductions have slowed to a dribble since the middle 1990s and most of what survives as interesting and useable cameras are the more robust ones now. Also, the data about these problems in the pre-internet age was not always immediately broadcast by every and any unhappy enthusiast; those that were affected went to the manufacturer who took care of them and quietly rolled an update into the production line if the problem showed up often enough.

My impression, from the fifty some years I've been doing photography, is that little has actually changed other than the amount of noise and outrage expressed because of the access to fast, pervasive communications by the users. This is what the engineering of complex, high precision equipment in large quantities has always been like.

G

I agree on the fact the Internet makes all the problems more evident to a great range of people, many of whom never experienced the problem themselves. However, I was speaking of professional grade cameras, not low grade ones. Also, comparing shutter count (I am getting this all in a post, I am no longer answering specifically to your post) is not really meaningful, in my opinion, because film cameras where designed to take 100,000 pictures in many many years (unless given to Winogrand), digital cameras are designed to make a completely different job, so if one model breaks down after a few years of normal use it is still a bad design, even if "normal use" put much more stress to the shutter than it used to do in a film camera.

GLF

 

[Kent]

Hmm.. a justified question.

I think it a mixture of both more complex camera systems (with more potential issues) and an intense internet information exchange. It's always the one with problems that (understandably) cry the loudest. 😉

 

[oftheherd]

I think the easy availability of a public form certainly is a factor.
...

The above and advertising.

In the 60s, 70s and 80s, the only mass media knowledge came from trade magazines. If Nikon or Canon or even a nowhere brand that advertised had a problem product, you wouldn't find out about it too soon if at all. Maybe two or three years down the road a writer would mention a camera or lens with a problem, or a "reported" problem.

 

[Godfrey]

I'm interested to hear about the problems professional grade film cameras had upon their release to the market "back in the day". I'm not familiar with any problems systemic to a particular model unlike some of the problems listed by the OP plaguing certain makes and models.
I'm aware of complains about functionality and form factor of certain cameras upon their release but those are subjective particular to the individual photographer and not a component or manufacturing failure.

As example, both the Nikon F and the Leica M3 were in production for ten years plus. Both had many minor changes nearly every year of production that were a response to problems reported by customers, warranty incidents, etc. Neither are bad cameras, both had their share of production flaws and incremental development. Similar is true for most Hasselblads, Rolleiflexes, Mamiyas ... You name it. Many of these legendary cameras, even in perfect condition, have their quirks and aberrant behaviors.

It's simply the way it is.

G

 

[Godfrey]

I see what the OP brings up as a part of a much worse trend: there's barely any photography left in photography forums. The little of it that's still there, is diluted among millions of threads focusing on specs, gear performances, technical problems, etc..

Most people don't seem to know how to talk about photography. They're more comfortable talking about equipment, even if they actually know even less about it... !

G

 

[JHutchins]

Most people don't seem to know how to talk about photography. They're more comfortable talking about equipment, even if they actually know even less about it... !

G

And photography is, itself, communicative. Any art has power because through it one can say clearly things that could be said imperfectly , if at all, another way.

 

[Godfrey]

I agree on the fact the Internet makes all the problems more evident to a great range of people, many of whom never experienced the problem themselves. However, I was speaking of professional grade cameras, not low grade ones. Also, comparing shutter count (I am getting this all in a post, I am no longer answering specifically to your post) is not really meaningful, in my opinion, because film cameras where designed to take 100,000 pictures in many many years (unless given to Winogrand), digital cameras are designed to make a completely different job, so if one model breaks down after a few years of normal use it is still a bad design, even if "normal use" put much more stress to the shutter than it used to do in a film camera.

GLF

Bolder... I was too.

I don't think most pro grade digital cameras are designed to do anything much different from pro grade film cameras. My Nikon F6 has an awful lot in common with a Nikon D2x, D3, etc. from a mechanical point of view, and they are all contemporary products.

G

 

[David Hughes]

It's much easier to talk about the technical side. It's a real shame there isn't more discussion about art, there are a number of very talented and, I think, serious photographers posting here on RFF.

Hi,

Trouble is, there's a limit to what you can say about another photo of a car or motor bike or fluffy kitten or mountain range or...

Regards, David