Tri-X at 800 or even 1600 in Microphen ?

[alexz]

Tomorrow will be the judgment day I was trying to get prepared for with my high speed films experiments - a wedding of my co-worker's daughter. Obviously, I'm a quest there, not the photographer in charge, but surely will likely and be happy to present him with a selection of B&W images modestly shot through my Leica.
That will be evening, open space (kind of open garden), probably lit by spot lights spread over the place so I expect harsh contrast and low lighting in general.
Now that I know what expect from Neopan 1600 (shot at 1600 and a half stop slower) in Microphen (stock), I will probably consider going with Tri-X pushed to 800 or probably a tad faster expecting it to be pulled well in Microphen afterwards.
I suspect Tri-X at these speeds will not be worse of Neopan 1600 even though pushed a stop or stop and half, mostly ocntrast-wise.
Massive Dev. Chart suggests 11 minutes (stock) at 20 deg. C for Tri-X at 800 and 15 minutes if shot at 1600.
Are those numbers indeed close enough to the reality to serve as a good starting point ? Let your experience to talk and advise.
What kind of contrast/grain can I expect from Tri-X at 800 (and within 800-1600 range) once processed in Microphen stock ?
Can I expect an improvement (smoother contrast scale and grain structure) with that combination over Neopan 1600 at its advertised 1600 and half stop slower ?

Thanks in advance, Alex

 

[tmfabian]

I have no experience with microphen, but tri-x shot at 1250ish and done in diafine at the recommended time/temp has worked fine for me in a pinch.

 

[Michael I.]

it rates 1000-1600 in trix with no problems

 

[Rob-F]

As a fast film, Neopan 1600 does not impress me. I can say from experience that you can get 800 with Microphen, though 640 is more realistic. I can get a good 1000 or 1250 with Tri-X in Microphen, but not with Neopan 1600, which impresses me as a 400 speed film that needs a 2-stop push to get 1600--as is true of Tri-X, but the latter pushes better. A better way to get 1600 is to use Delta 3200, for which 3200 is about a 2-stop push; thus you are not giving up too much shadow detail at a one-stop push to 1600.

This is all subjective, as it depends on what you shoot, the contrast of the scene, and how much shadow detail you expect. Others may disagree, but I am just reporting on what I have found to be true.

 

[alexz]

Thank you guys.
I'm setting my mind for Tri-X and shoot it at either 800 or 1600 at the upcoming event depending on local conditions and then process in Microphen as advised.
I'll be happy to report as soon as will have the results.

Now, the next dilemma is whether to take both of my M3 and M6 while the first one will have 90mm Elmarit attached the second with 50mm 'Cron (I hate switching lenses in rush under poor lighting)....🙂, all in all I'll be just a guest there 🙂

 

[kaiyen]

I haven't shot enough NP1600 to give the kind of advice I would for one shooting a wedding, even as a guest. I offer up my experiences in other threads usually when it pertains to film speed, etc, but I don't know its grain structure well enough otherwise.

Since you are sticking to TXT, why not shoot a few test rolls?

FWIW, I do not think one can get a speed of 1000 or 1250 out of TXT with any developer other than Diafine (though you make other compromises with Diafine - no free lunches). But Microphen is an easy push to 1600, IMO, with tight but clearly present grain. The result is quite punchy at 1600.

You might not need any dev adjustment at all for 800 from what you do at 400. At most maybe 10%. The box, if you look at it, actually says no adjustment at all. For me, at 1600, I do 16 minutes with 10s agitation every 3 minutes. Stock Microphen.

Remember, though, that just turning the ISO dial doesn't mean you'll get good results if you toss basic ideas of exposure out of the window. For instance, if it's almost entirely pitch black outside, you can move an ISO dial as far as you want but it'll come out dark, super grainy, and useless. You still need enough light to hit that emulsion.

 

[alexz]

Surely, I will do a test roll or two, just hadn't enough time to do these prior to the event. I will do though these afterwards, prior to developing of wedding rolls...
Of course, I'm aware of exposure/film exposing relationship...🙂

 

[vieri]

I use a lot of Tri-X in Diafine (around 1200 ISO) and Neopan 1600 at around 1250 to 1600 in 510-Pyro with very good results for concerts; though, I like contrasty BW - they work well for the subject matter - and this might not apply well to a wedding, YMMV of course 😀

 

[kaiyen]

alexz - I note the smiley, but I meant no offense when I mentioned about needing proper exposure. I meant it more for anyone else reading this thread perhaps in the future.

allan

 

[drewbarb]

Alexz- I put a post at the bottom of your Neopan 1600 thread about my results with Tri-X at 1600 in Microphen- I hope you saw it; I won't re-create the same info here, since it's been covered by others as well, but it's a good combination. How did your pictures from your friend's wedding turn out?

 

[varjag]

Black tux and white dress in artificial light create extremely poor combination for pushing. I'd say push as little as you can, or avoid it altogether, by faster film or faster lens.

 

[navilluspm]

I've done hp5+ at 1600 in Microphen and was pleasantly surprised with the results - much better than Delta 3200 pulled back to 1600 souped in Microphen.

 

[alexz]

Thanks guys, the event is behind. Not much frames have been shot there, burnt just a single roll of Tri-X, but had indeed to set it to 1600 to obtain bearable speeds (1/30 to 1/60 at f/2). There was plenty of other "homebrew" amateurs with their big honky DSLRs aside of hired pro, and I did not intend to interfare with these trying to snapt another common bride/groom picture...I rather seeked an interesting situations behind the scene - kind of guests sleeping during the hupa ceremony...LOL
Have yet processed. I have another event today evening (my daughter's callisthenics local school end of year show). This is probably not the most appropriate circumstances to shoot with RF and less then tele lenses, but I intedn to use the event to shoot another roll of Tri-X pushed to 1600 to get developed in Microphen - kind of trial and fail routine to obtain a proper (for me) Microphen procesing recipe...then will do the wedding roll...