two 120 rolls in one plastic reel?

[kmallick]

So whats the trick? I know many of you load two 120 rolls in one plastic reel. Some of you tape them tail to tail. But I tried that yesterday using the tape at the end of the roll, got frustrated, fumbled inside the changing bag and then decided to put the second roll back inside a canister until later development. Phew!🙄

On top of that, only after I took the first roll I had loaded out to hang dry that I realized it got buckled inside the reel while I was fumbling and had dark undeveloped contact streak along the bottom quarter. Not good!🙄

I am not giving up yet! I would like to know the tricks that you use to load two 120 rolls. What works best and what doesn't? I would appreciate if you can teach me a few secrets.

I know Jobo has a reel with a red clip that somehow lets you load two rolls. But for the time being I would like to stick with the plastic reels with wide mouths for easy feeding. I use them in my Paterson tank and the Arista premium tank.

 

[filmfan]

oooooo this sounds money. I might give it a try.

 

[nikon_sam]

This is how I do it with a Paterson Reel...
First make sure it's a clean and dry reel with both ball bearings in place and working...
Load the first roll, then gently push it (wind it) towards the end of the reel...sometimes I get my thumb under the lip at the end of the roll and wind the reel from the bottom...if all is good it will slide until it gets to the end of the reel...you will feel it when this happens...
Then I wind on the second roll without taping the two together...
If the first roll goes on without issue then I know that it hasn't buckled and will develop correctly...reel on the second roll until its all on then stop...
Dry & Clean reels is the key...

 

[kmallick]

This is how I do it with a Paterson Reel...
First make sure it's a clean and dry reel with both ball bearings in place and working...
Load the first roll, then gently push it (wind it) towards the end of the reel...sometimes I get my thumb under the lip at the end of the roll and wind the reel from the bottom...if all is good it will slide until it gets to the end of the reel...you will feel it when this happens...
Then I wind on the second roll without taping the two together...
If the first roll goes on without issue then I know that it hasn't buckled and will develop correctly...reel on the second roll until its all on then stop...
Dry & Clean reels is the key...

Thanks for the idea. I will try that.
A couple of questions though:

1. When the 1st roll is rolled all the way to the inside, does the ratcheting/loading the second roll keep the 1st one safe from buckling?
2. When the second one is loaded, there is no chance of getting the tail of the 1st and the leading edge of the second to overlap, correct?

 

[NormanV]

I find that when the first film is loaded it is past the ratchet mechanism so no pressure is put on it as you load the second film. I have never had the two films overlap in 30 years of doing it but I do always leave the last 3-4 inches of film wrapped around the outside of the reel. I have never tried it in the light to check whether or not it is necessary to leave the end out.

 

[kmallick]

I find that when the first film is loaded it is past the ratchet mechanism so no pressure is put on it as you load the second film. I have never had the two films overlap in 30 years of doing it but I do always leave the last 3-4 inches of film wrapped around the outside of the reel. I have never tried it in the light to check whether or not it is necessary to leave the end out.

Fantastic! Will give it a go. Looking forward to a near 100% improvement in efficiency.😀

 

[gliderbee]

I do this with Jobo reels (anyone of them, not only the ones with the red lip. Just keep on rolling the first film until it is at the end, then put on the second one and stop rolling as soon as the end is on the reel. They don't overlap.

 

[nikon_sam]

120 film is 72cm long & 220 is 144cm...so if you can load a roll of 220 completely onto the reel then loading the second roll of 120 shouldn't be a problem...and even if they do overlap slightly there aren't any images to lose in this area
I haven't had a problem with overlapping, I used to tape the ends but no longer do this...it's just too frustrating...

 

[venchka]

Jobo reels have a stop between rolls. the stop moves enough to clear the first roll. Then press in place to stop the end of the second roll. I haven't tried it. The theory is sound.

 

[---f]

do you have to adjust chemistry when you do this?

 

[nikon_sam]

I don't and the Big Chart doesn't apply any between 120 & 220...

 

[ItsReallyDarren]

do you have to adjust chemistry when you do this?

Just make sure you have enough stock developer to handle in increase in films.

For example I use a 5 reel(35mm)/3reel(120) Paterson tank. If I double up the 120 reels I now have 6 120 films in my tank.

I use Xtol as my developer, Kodak recommends 100ml minimum per roll, so 600ml of stock Xtol would be the minimum recommended amount to mix.

 

[kmallick]

do you have to adjust chemistry when you do this?

Thanks for bringing that up. It seems for B&W one needs to make sure that enough developer is in the solution.

But can someone also comment about E-6 developing? If I am using a tank for one reel, can I use the same volume of working solution for E-6 (~500 mL)? In other words, am I safe in assuming there is no need to adjust between 1x120 and 2x120?

 

[tic]

I wrecked 50% of both films the only time I tried it on a Paterson reel.

 

[Nettar]

I have not done this for a long time, but in my youth I did it frequently. I initially had the problems reported by tic, although there was only overlap of one frame at the end of one roll. I overcame this problem by folding the far end of the second roll--the end that was on the outside of the reel--before moving it further into the reel. It then got wedged nicely at the entrance to the reel, preventing it from moving further in while I was agitating the film during processing. Since this solved the problem, it seemed to imply that the difficulty was caused by the second roll moving forward to partially cover the first one, rather than the first roll moving backwards to partly cover the second.

As nikon_sam says, there seems to be no need to modify developing times. However, in my experience it is a good idea to agitate more frequently while processing, to move the developer through the tank and prevent uneven development, etc. I found that occasionally, if I didn't agitate more frequently than recommended for processing a single roll, I got uneven results.

By the way, I too was using Paterson tanks. Nettar

 

[kmallick]

Not so good news. It was a disaster! I tried loading two 120 rolls in the plastic reel tonight and developed them for E-6. When I opened the can, I found the two rolls completely overlapped. Both rolls are ruined although one can be salvaged , I hope, by scanning.

When I loaded the first roll, I tried advancing it as far as I could. I thought it reached the center of the reel. I guess not! When I loaded the 2nd roll, everything went smooth. There were no crinkles or buckles I could feel. I stopped when the tail was a couple of inches off the reel. I was excited that everything was going as planned.

The difficult part is when you are doing it all by feel inside the changing bag, there is no way to tell if the 1st roll has advanced all the way or if the films are overlapping or not.

So... if it has worked for you, fantastic! More power to you! But I am not trying it again - its too risky. I ordered the Paterson tank that holds 2 separate 120 rolls and will develop double rolls in one shot that way.

 

[gdi]

I do it all the time w/Patterson plastic reels. I load the first roll starting with the free end ( as opposed to the end taped to the paper) then, when almost loaded, I fold the tape over onto itself and leave an unflattened section to add a bit of thickness. After ratcheting the first roll till it goes no further, the second roll gets the taped end loaded first. The two separate taped ends bump together, preventing overlap. I use a phototherm to process usually and the constant agitation never caused a problem.