Two Flash Questions

Bob Michaels said:
while I am in total agreement with you, we must acknowledge that is as unlikely as teaching people to do multiplication and division with a slide rule.
Click to expand...

Bob, funny that you mentioned slide rules. When I was in undergrad after I got out of the Navy in 2005, I asked my mathematics professor if I could use a slide rule instead of a scientific calculator (I had a slide rule and didn't want to buy a scientific calc.) He said that the mathematics and engineering departments no longer allow the use of slide rules because the board thought they could present an "unfair advantage" to students using them. I kid you not. I loved just being able to slide, look at a scale, then have the answer there in front of me for some simple work. I hadd been using slide rules in the Navy for years and was comfortable with them. They offer enough precision to get the space program off the ground and astronauts into orbit, so they are precise enough for me here on terra firma.
As for getting the flash right, we were taught in the Navy that all we needed to know was the GN and if we needed a really accurate exposure, then we had to grab a measuring tape... I'm so glad I was taught in the days of pure analog.
Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Bob, funny that you mentioned slide rules. When I was in undergrad after I got out of the Navy in 2005, I asked my mathematics professor if I could use a slide rule instead of a scientific calculator (I had a slide rule and didn't want to buy a scientific calc.) He said that the mathematics and engineering departments no longer allow the use of slide rules because the board thought they could present an "unfair advantage" to students using them.
Phil Forrest
Click to expand...

Funny in my 3rd year of college scientific calculators were brought on the market. We could use them for homework but not tests - calculators gave an "unfair advantage" to pupils using them. I like to play with them so I don't forget what "significant" digits mean. Something that seems lost with engineering students today when a computer can multiple 2x4 and spit an answer to 12 decimal points.

We digress -🙂
 
And don't forget the circular ones for Photoflood lights and so on.

The other point about slide rules is that you think about the problem or calculation differently and that can be an advantage. It's like using a spreadsheet after doing accounts by hand for years. I look at some spreadsheets and wonder sometimes why people got the long way round.

And slide rules are excellent for all the "what ifs" that can follow the basic maths.


Regards, David
 
seany65, I am sure it all seems daunting when you look at the above posts. But I assure you it isn't as hard as it looks once you get started. You will make mistakes of course, but that will help you to learn. I always used to tell folks that people learn from their mistakes, and I have learned a lot.

People above who have mentioned having had to learn to use flash manually are correct. It is the best way to learn. In fact with some early auto flash I found I was more accurate with guide numbers and didn't really use them until the Yashica/Contax. Their auto flash was incredibly accurate.

Spend a little time and make your mistakes and learn. It will pay rewards you couldn't have imagined. When you get good at electronic flash, you might want to experiment with flash bulbs (if you can source them). They usually have a more pleasing "look" to them. Of course, electronic is cheaper too.

But do spend the little more time it takes to get the photos you want. It's confusing now, but it won't be long before you will be part of those responding to questions in threads like yours.
 
oftheherd is correct learn manual; there really only two things to learn full flash in dark or overcast days and indoors. Second to do fill flash outdoors. Then you can learn ambient light adjustment and bounce.

Auto flash is useful though. Like oftheherd I have two flashes that are accurate with auto, but use yours on auto an see if it works well.

I bought one of the first auto flashes in 1969 a Braun the recharge battery went south so I had to use it with the AC adapter. I kept it because is was so trustworthy.
 
charjohncarter said:
oftheherd is correct learn manual; there really only two things to learn full flash in dark or overcast days and indoors. Second to do fill flash outdoors. Then you can learn ambient light adjustment and bounce.

Auto flash is useful though. Like oftheherd I have two flashes that are accurate with auto, but use yours on auto an see if it works well.

I bought one of the first auto flashes in 1969 a Braun the recharge battery went south so I had to use it with the AC adapter. I kept it because is was so trustworthy.
Click to expand...

I had a Sunpak 611 with a rechargeable battery pack, and when that went south it could be used with regular C cells. I'd hate to try and lug that potato masher around now days.

PF
 
farlymac said:
I had a Sunpak 611 with a rechargeable battery pack, and when that went south it could be used with regular C cells. I'd hate to try and lug that potato masher around now days.


PF
Click to expand...

My first Sunpak was the 322. What a neat little flash. So many options in such a small package. I got a Vivitar 285 and was amazed at how bright it was. Then the 522. When that fired is was like there was a piece of the sun had escaped from that thing. It went south in a house fire and later I was able to acquire a 611 also. You are correct, potato mashers have a lot of power and can do many things but they can be very heavy in use. I didn't use the 522 that much, and the 611 I have never used other than to experiment with it and keep the capacitor in good nic.
 
Regarding the capacitor...

Some of my flash manuals say that if the flash isn't being used regularly, the batteries should be removed (no surprise), and the flash should be test fired once a month.

I try to do this, but I'm lazy and postpone it. However, all my flashes remain good - there is a small Pentax 110 flash, a gift, that I had to resuscitate years ago. It takes longer than normal to become ready.
 
Getting back to books about flash; I reckon any elderly photo book will do it because the theory isn't much but the practice is.

By elderly I mean pre-1995 as that avoids digital and pre-1955 if you want to avoid electronic flash.

But it does raise a question; what about the manuals for the flash? They usually explain everything...

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Getting back to books about flash; I reckon any elderly photo book will do it because the theory isn't much but the practice is.

By elderly I mean pre-1995 as that avoids digital and pre-1955 if you want to avoid electronic flash.

But it does raise a question; what about the manuals for the flash? They usually explain everything...

Regards, David
Click to expand...

Pretty much David, though the 1951 Leica Manual does do electronic flash. So to completely avoid, probably pre-1950.

I have read some pretty scary old instructions from before flashbulbs...
 
Scrambler said:
Pretty much David, though the 1951 Leica Manual does do electronic flash. So to completely avoid, probably pre-1950.

I have read some pretty scary old instructions from before flashbulbs...
Click to expand...

I was going - would you believe - by the review of my one dated July 1953. It was the first I'd ever seen and dominated the Periflex...

It was the size of the old Leitz one with the pudding basin reflector and had a small pack for over the shoulders holding two heavy 90v batteries. (Ex portable radio batteries from memory. They usually took a 90v and a 1½v lump.)

Regards, David
 
I read something about reinvigorating E-flash capacitors. Sorry can't remember what the drill was but it was someplace on the net. I did it with two flashes and brought them back to the living. I have five or six of the same flash all work, but it is work to fire each one off. I'll try to find the article on capacitors.

Here is part of the article:

Example: Speedlights

Speedlights are designed so that the capacitors remain fully charged (to over 300v) when the unit is on. So working your way up from low power can actually be a problem, as you are leaving the cap in a near fully charged state most of the time. Which can cause a thermal runaway.

The process is just as easy, just a little different:

1. Turn on the speedlight and set it to full power.

2. As soon as the capacitor charges up (ready light glows) fire the flash.

3. Repeat the process.

4. Alas, speedlights do not dissipate heat very well when popped repeatedly at full power. And the last thing you want here is heat build-up. You may wish to turn the flash off and let it rest and cool every twenty pops or so.

5. This technique will build up the aluminum oxide layer on the cap (assuming it was not too far gone) and breathe new life into it.

This is the article:

https://strobist.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-to-keep-your-old-flash-from.html
 
@oftheheard and charjohncarter: Thanks for the replies and encouragement. I have actually been testing several Nissin 360tw's as I wanted to find out if they worked, nut just on the hotshoe but the pc sockets and pc cords as well as hotshoe/pc cord adaptors. Mostly with a prinzflex 500 and a nikon f301. I had remembered some stuff from the flash's manual but I'd remembered incorrectly. I had everything set for the yellow auto setting, with the film speed indicator at 400asa (as I was using that speed), focused carefully and noted the distance and set the correct f no. "unfortunately" I thought you used the f no. that was nearest to the "correct distance" on the flash's distance scale NOT the f no. at the end of the coloured line. This was a mix between using the flash on Yellow auto and Manual, which of course was a mistake. However, as I was estimating the distance to the ceiling and adding it to the distance to the subject, as I was using bounce flash it turned out that the f no. at the end of the yellow line (auto use) corresponded with the correct f no. for the total distance the light had to go from the flash via the ceiling to the subject (manual use). I may not have explained it correctly/clearly, but I should eventually see the results once I finish the film and get it printed.

@ DavidHughes: Manuals usually only include the basics of operating the equipment that the manual is for, they don't usually go into "the ins and the outs of the cat's backside" (don't blame me, that's one of my mother's sayings) about other aspects, or they they may not explain things in quite the way I need.
 
If your flash is covered by one of the "Magic Lantern" guide books, they have lots of information in them. Other than that I'd look in the used stores for books by any number of professional photographers.


PF
 
seany65 said:
... DavidHughes: Manuals usually only include the basics of operating the equipment that the manual is for, they don't usually go into "the ins and the outs of the cat's backside" (don't blame me, that's one of my mother's sayings) about other aspects, or they they may not explain things in quite the way I need.
Click to expand...

As you mention and appeared to be wondering about "The distances along the coloured line goes from 5 feet to 42 feet, with f4 at 42 feet, but the subject is at 15 feet with an f No. of f16 that is either directly above or below it or is very close to the distance. Do I use f4 or f16?" I assumed your flashes manual would cover it.

Secondly, experience of flash guns tells me that they are all slightly different and you didn't mention the makes There was little else I could do except give a vague answer and mention the manuals. I can guess but it's your film I'd be wasting.



Regards, David
 
charjohncarter; the article is about reforming condensers, which I thought I'd mentioned here but hadn't; it was a normal thing to do once upon a time and was in the instruction manuals. Anyway, it's interesting, thanks for the link.


Regards, David
 
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