Two Zorki 4K - same problem with shutter speeds

[winston_smith]

Hi everyone,

I don't really know how to start. First of all, I must say that I'm just discovering film photography (and photography, in general, beyond the usual "point and shoot" situation), so I must apologize from the very beginning for my silly questions. Secondly, my English is not that good and I'm not quite accustomed to the English terminology concerning photography. Here is my story.

I just bought my second Zorki 4K on ebay. It looks great, everything is clean and probably should work just fine. Today I finally got the chance to play a little with the shutter speeds and something struck me. It seems there is a whole range on the speed dial that I cannot reach. I do know the rule to first cock the shutter, so no mistake here. Here are the values I cannot set: 1/2 (I cannot even go close to it), 1/4 seems fine, 1/8, 1/15, 1/60, 1/125. It seems like the speed dial does not fit into place when I try to select these values. The closest value I can set between 1/8 and 1/250 is somewhere between 1/125 and 1/250, a point I cannot really figure out whether it's 125 or 250. Actually, the whole speed dial seems to have some sort of an offset. And now the funny part. I took out my first Zorki and it pretty much does the same thing. Am I missing something? Is this a common issue with Zorki 4K? Any piece of advice?

Thank you very much and please excuse me for bothering you with this nonsense.

W.S.

 

[wolves3012]

It's possible that the dial doesn't line up properly with the speed you've set. In order, from clockwise to anticlockwise, the speeds are:
30, B, 1000, 500, 250, 125, 60, 15, 8, 4, 2, 1

How many of these can you select? Just count the notches as you change speeds, don't rely on what the dial says for this (and remember to cock the shutter first!). If you can find all 12 notches, then the dial is misaligned. Loosen the two tiny screws in the rim of the dial and re-position it correctly, then re-tighten the screws.

If you can't select all 12 speeds then there is a different problem. Let me know what the result is and we can take it from there.

By the way, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your english and you aren't "bothering" us at all - it's what these forums are for!

 

[winston_smith]

Hi and thank you so much for your answer.

I did think about the misaligned speed dial, but it doesn't seem the case. Here is the list with all the speeds I can select:

1/4 (or what appears to be)
1/250 (see above)
1/500 (see above)
1/1000 (see above)
a spot somewhere between 1000 and B
B
another spot between B and 30
30

That makes a total of 8 speeds instead of 12. The (not so) funny thing is that both my Zorki 4K behave just the same.

Also, what should normally happen with the curtain when I use B? My guess is that the first curtain should leave and the second one should not move until I release the shutter. I'm a beginner in understanding cameras, but this is what my intuition tells me. If my intuition is right, then the camera is defective, as it behaves on B just like on any other speed. The second curtain follows the first in an instant.

Do you think it's fixable? Would a CLA do the job? I read the excellent CLA guide and I think I can do it, but I wouldn't want to spend any more money on something that has not a chance.

Thank you for your time,
W.S.

 

[john341]

Dear WS. If you type Zorki repair into google you should come up with Matt Denton's name. He has written much about fixing Zorkis. Try typing in "zorki repair" and see what comes up. Also look for Rick Olesonfor Zorki repair. Is the shutter speed dial in its correct position? Maybe it has been replaced wrongly. Good luck!

 

[wolves3012]

I suspect strongly that the dial is not lined up correctly, for a start. In answer to your question about the "B" setting you are correct, it should stay open until you release the button, so that's not right either (that's if you really are setting it to "B", not just what you think is "B" because the dial says so!).

Eight speeds would be about right if the slow-speeds were blocked off, so maybe this is the problem. If you feel confident to do it, take the top cover off and have a look at the speed-selector under the flash-sync switch. There are instructions in my sticky on how to get that far, and a few pictures showing how things ought to look. If you can't figure out the problem, post again and tell us what you found or ask any questions.

 

[winston_smith]

Thank you for all your help. I don't think the speed dial is misaligned, as I compared it to other cameras and it's placed in the exact same way. Moreover, I checked the curtains in each of all the 8 available speeds and there isn't any position that behaves like B. I shall try to open it up in the days to come, not until I get all the right tools and oils. I'll keep you posted.

Thank you,
W.S.

 

[davelrods]

I'm wondering what do do with all those shutter speeds. I only use the faster ones anyway. I'm doubtful they are consistent or accurate. I have one camera I am now trying to negotiate an ebay seller return on now. It has an additional problem of all images being out of focus, because the film seems to be out of its plane some how. It sort of cants up on edge a bit. It looks nice on the outside but has the cover for the shutter roller mechanism missing on the bottom of the shutter box. Buying these cameras long distance opens you to all kinds of lost problems. I would just like my money back on that one.

dave

 

[winston_smith]

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your help. Now the update. After frantically searching for lubricants, I began CLA-ing my camera. After a bumpy start (I had to retension the shutter lever spring), everything is back into place. With only one problem. If I rewind the camera manually (by rotating the sprocket), everything seems fine. I can select all the shutter speeds, everything works great, the second curtain travels all the way. If I rewind it the normal way (with the lever), both curtains only travel about three fourth of the whole range (I can see where they actually meet) and I cannot select all the speeds. This leads me to believe that it has something to do with the lever, but I don't know where to start. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks,
W.S.

PS Once again, I must apologize for my dreadful English, I can only hope you'll get the idea.

 

[fidget]

Sounds as if the restrictor gear is in the wrong position. This is the gear driven by the cog on the bottom of the sprocket shaft, it is what limits the travel of the curtains etc.

 

[wolves3012]

When you say the curtains only travel three-fourths of the way, do you mean three-fourths of winding or three-fourths of the way closed when you fire the shutter?

If you can wind on fully by using the sprocket but not by using the lever, then the ratchet is probably set up incorrectly. Release the lever and wind it again to see if the curtains wind further. If they do, this would confirm the ratchet being wrongly re-assembled. Check out the "HOW TO" again to see the correct way to reassemble it.

 

[winston_smith]

Hi and thank you so much for your assistance. I also suspected the ratchet (and I still do). I set it up as it used to be before the CLA, probably that's why the problem is replicated. The camera has definitely been messed with before, so, probably, I "inherited" the same problem by replicating the position. The point is I don't know how else should I place the ratchet.

Two more annoying issues. The first one (probably related to the ratchet) is that the wind lever feels much stiffer than to other Zorki 4Ks I put my hands on. This is especially valid for the beginning of the winding process (when the curtains begin their travel) and to the end of the winding. I wonder if this has something to do with the curtains, too (in the way they overlap). The second one is related to the lens. When I screw the lens, if I screw them tightly, the focal distances are a little bit angled clockwise (facing the camera from the front). Not much, but just enough to give an assymetric feel. Again, I did place everything as it has been before, but I'm not sure the person who opened this camera before me knew what to do, given that I found one missing screw.

After finishing the CLA, the winding problem seemed to have disappeared, except for the stiffness of the lever.

Thank you and any suggestion is greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
W.S.

 

[wolves3012]

If you have a look at photo 16 of the "HOW TO" sticky, this shows the ramps of the ratchet in the correct position with the shutter un-cocked. That should help you replace the lever so it works correctly.

For the two problems you've noted, the first one I'm not sure about. Several things can cause the winding to be stiff. Did you lubricate all the gears properly (and their pivots)? One thing to check carefully is that the light-baffle plates aren't catching against the shutter curtains or laths, this can easily cause a problem. Otherwise it's just a case of trying to find where the friction is caused.

At the end of the wind stroke, it would be normal for the lever to become stiffer IF a slow speed is set, since you're winding up the escapement. It still shouldn't be much stiffer though, the increase is not great.

On your second problem, the lens being off-centre, this is nothing unusual. My 4K is the same, the infinity mark is somewhere about the 1 O'clock position when looking at the front of the camera. I think it's unusual to have a lens line up at 12 O'clock perfectly on most FSU cameras!