Ullrich and Basso banned from Tour de France

I am a big fan of the Tour. And I support fighting drugs there of any kind.

Perhaps of interest to others here, I was following the Spannish TV transmition when the doping affair exploded for the first time. The reaction of the TV broadcasters was unbelieveable, trying to cover up for the use of drugs under the label of "sport medicines". When I heard that I didn't catch it right away, beyond feeling something is stynking.

But back to sports and photography, I do have a dream to travel some day to France and catch the tour at the Alps stage, offering lots of opportunities to non-carrying photo cards photographers. What a drama there at the Alps !

Do you remember that Italian guy wining there the tour, under heavy rain and darkness, out of the blue ?
 
Ruben,

I agree that drugs have no place in sports, not at the Tour de France, and certainly not in Barry Bonds :p

My understanding, though, is that Ullrich and Basso were merely 'implicated' and asked to withdraw by race officials. I guess part of me would have preferred that they be permitted to race subject to removal of title/standing when and if they are proven to be guilty.

Hard call. Some of these drugs don't show up after a few hours, so most of the evidence will be indirect.

I feel badly for the two, as they have obviously worked very hard for this one opportunity (post-Lance). Perhaps, they worked a bit too hard !

In any event, I'll still watch or maybe just learn the rules on the concept of "off-sides " and watch the World Cup :D
 
Funny but while at RFF I am in favour of utmost tolerance, at the tour I am in favour of heavy hand fight of drugs. I think I may be mistaken in both.
 
bike riding is awsome

kaw-tandem%20bike.jpg
 
Say it aint so Jan

Say it aint so Jan

The tour is the only sporting event I care about, and I was really hoping to see a spectacular one this year. Too bad everyone is presumed guilty in this case. Maybe a French rider can win now. The whole thing has me devastated, think I'll go take some pictures and try to forget about the whole thing.:(
 
Maybe its because I live with an Anglo-Saxon legal system, but I also found this to be pretty disturbing -- if somebody has the hard, cold evidence, let's get it out there; if not, let them ride. I really don't like the under-the-table pressure thing. I don't think that either Basso or Ulrich would have won this year -- they're just a bit past prime time. But who knows? Not us, not now.

Gonna watch the race anyway; greatest spectacle in sport, IMHO, and I don't even ride a bike further than around the block. In fact, now that I think about it, maybe they could turn the World Cup football into a halfway interesting sport by putting a couple of the players on bikes...

JC
 
I always was a big fan of the Tour myself .. but i will skip it this year ...there is a hypocracy going on i can't stand... and there is a randomness about it.
Or is it indeed the search for a french winner?
Let's face it .... there are not many guys in the peleton riding that clean!
 
steamer said:
The tour is the only sporting event I care about, and I was really hoping to see a spectacular one this year. Too bad everyone is presumed guilty in this case. Maybe a French rider can win now. The whole thing has me devastated, think I'll go take some pictures and try to forget about the whole thing.:(
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Asked whether T-Mobile would consider cutting ties with Ullrich completely, he replied "certainly ... we are now demanding evidence of his innocence."
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Presumed guilty is right.
 
J. Borger said:
Or is it indeed the search for a french winner?
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Exactly what I was thinking. Remember when they tried to say Lance had been using. Then provided no evidence. Bad form... really bad form.:mad:
 
I think EPO and blood doping should be legal, but restricted to Tour sanctioned doctors and clinics. This will stop backalley medicine and stop rewarding those who cheat successfully. HGH and steroids shouldn't be legalized because they can damage the body; but as far as I know, doping and EPO will not hurt the athlete when done under a doctor's care. Set a maximum hemoglobin level that a pro can have before the season and he can choose to dope or not. Go over it and you're out. It should make a level playing field for the pros and stop making criminals out of the best riders (or the best riders out of criminals).
 
John Camp said:
I don't think that either Basso or Ulrich would have won this year -- they're just a bit past prime time.
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Who's your money on? I agree (sadly) that Jan is probably past his prime (and I think he might lack the heart necessary to really nail this thing) but if Basso wasn't blown from winning the Giro I think he had a great chance.

Oh well. I don't have cable anyway. This'll save my OLN-having friends from my mooching and begging to watch a race that most of them have no interest in whatsoever.
 
I love cycling and have followed the sport ever since the 1984 Olympic Trials (held in my hometown about 10 blocks from my house :D) but I'm really getting disgusted with the whole doping/drugs thing.
 
So, of the men still standing -- who do you predict for the GC? The scuttlebutt I've read favors Floyd Landis. I don't know... One of my favorite riders, Dave "Frisky" Zabriskie is in this year (he won the prologue TT last year) but I don't know that he's ready to be a GC contender.

Gotta head back over to dailypeloton.com.
 
I'd like to see either Landis or Zabriskie. I have a feeling we'll see a European rider win this year, maybe Kloden or Gonchar (if he holds on).

Does it feel strange to anyone else not to see Lance in the Tour?
 
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Does it feel strange to anyone else not to see Lance in the Tour?

Not for me. Don't get me wrong, I love Lance (and when I say I love Lance, I mean I LOVE Lance) but it was time to not have the Tour be a foregone conclusion. The most exciting recent Tour was 2003, when Lance really had to fight for the win (I was on the edge of my seat during the last ITT, when Ullrich sealed his fate by wiping out on the white road stripes). I was so hoping to see a real epic battle between Ullrich and Basso this year. I wonder if they'll come back next year. I forget how old Basso is, but Ullrich is getting kind of long in the tooth.

If I had cable and could watch, I am sure I would still find this year's edition interesting even without Lance, Jan, or Ivan riding -- but the difference is I'm not going out of my way to see the race with them out, not yet, anyway.

I'm hoping Zabriskie is still in the mix when the last ITT rolls around. The guy is talented, easy on the eyes, and funny as all hell (do yourself a favor and read his weblog) and he's American. What's not to like?
 
If Ullrich is past his prime, then you can rest assured Gontchar is even more so. He's also never been very capapble in the mountains. Now his TEAM- on the other hand- stands a decent chance of keeping one of their seven riders in the jersey. My personal wish would be to see Hincapie finally win something truly worthwhile (although a stage last year was quite nice); but he may have tanked it in Saturday's TT.

Regardless, I was a little miffed & surprised by the expulsions one day prior to the start, but I can honestly say I think this will go down as one of the most unpredictable Tours of the last 10 years at least. I for one am looking forward to it.

If you really want to follow the race, velonews.com & cyclingnews.com (among many others I'm sure) prvide live, real-time updates as the race unfolds. It's about as good as an American can hope for if he doesn't pay to watch televsion. Now...if Sirius would pick up a live audio feed, then I'd be happy.

Lastly and while I still have the soapbox, the whole drugs thing is a sad reallity of this sport- and perhaps many, if not all, others at the professional level. Nick R, I'm no doctor but I can pretty well understand how having more than half of your blood being red blood cells couldn't be good for you. The UCI says its unhealthy to race (at the very least) with 50% or more hematocrit (level of red blood cells in your blood) and I'm willing to believe they're right on that count. EPO boosts the hematocrit level in cancer patients & can obviously do the same for most anyone. As for the ones excluded, I don't know enough to make any claims one way or another about their situation, but there are more than enough cycling websites that could help any of you form your own opinions- especially the two mentioned above.

Oh yeah and antoher thing.....YWNEZ: that is one super SWEET tandem in that picture. Exactly the kind of tandem I've been wanting.
 
lff said:
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Lastly and while I still have the soapbox, the whole drugs thing is a sad reallity of this sport- and perhaps many, if not all, others at the professional level. Nick R, I'm no doctor but I can pretty well understand how having more than half of your blood being red blood cells couldn't be good for you. The UCI says its unhealthy to race (at the very least) with 50% or more hematocrit (level of red blood cells in your blood) and I'm willing to believe they're right on that count. EPO boosts the hematocrit level in cancer patients & can obviously do the same for most anyone. As for the ones excluded, I don't know enough to make any claims one way or another about their situation, but there are more than enough cycling websites that could help any of you form your own opinions- especially the two mentioned above.
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I believe that boosting hemacrit through EPO or transfusions is dangerous but it is also one of the most difficult things to test for. Top pros have greater access to more qualified medical personel which lesser riders can't afford and are thus able to cheat more successfully. This also puts lesser riders at a greater risk becuase they might resort to using higher doses in an attempt to catch up while at the same time using shadier Doctors. My thinking on the subject is that whatever level of hemacrit is deemed safe would be the limit for any rider in the tour. EPO, or transfusions, would be administered by Tour sanctioned medical personel for a nominal fee. Thus, insuring fair access to all riders.
 
My thinking on the subject is that whatever level of hemacrit is deemed safe would be the limit for any rider in the tour. EPO, or transfusions, would be administered by Tour sanctioned medical personel for a nominal fee. Thus, insuring fair access to all riders.
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This will never work. Doping at present means taking substances or undergoing treatment, and then illegally working around tests for certain thresholds. Why do you think this would change if the threshold were higher? People would just cheat on a higher level.

At present sport is supposed to fulfil a certain role in society by providing examples of achievement (say, Lance Armstrong for cancer patients) and encouraging people to exercise and to participate in clean competitions. With the no-doping policy at least in theory present in most sports, a cancer patient can see Lance Armstrong and say to himself, I can get out of this by sheer determination (instead of illegally applied chemicals of dubious effects), and if a young person wants to be like Ivan Basso or Jan Ulrich he has to cycle and exercise a lot - (well, in the case of Jan Ullrich he also has to whine a lot and be overweight, which I'm saying as a disappointed German). I don't see how we perform a service to society if instead we encourage them to dope instead.

Philipp
 
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