Sailor Ted
Well-known
I just got the following email from Leica. Seems all is on track : )
Dear LEICA M8 customers,
Today, we would like to inform you about further updates for your camera.
Subjects
The delivery of the free Leica UV/IR filters has commenced
Firmware version 1.10 is expected to be available by the middle of April 2007
Firmware 1.092 ready for download
The delivery of the free Leica UV/IR filters has commenced
As announced, the delivery of the first UV/IR filters to the customers has commenced. The filters are intended as free basic equipment for the LEICA M8. Due to the especially high demand for the LEICA M8 it may take a couple of weeks in some cases until the desired filters can be shipped.
We hope the described measures will increase your satisfaction with the LEICA M8 and wish you continued pleasure discovering the many creative options this camera gives you.
Firmware version 1.10 is expected to be available by the middle of April 2007
The image sensor in the LEICA M8 is highly sensitive for infrared light. This can lead to a magenta-colored offset (e.g. with black fabrics). Usually, this effect is undesirable. Therefore, Leica recommends using exclusively the special Leica UV/IR filters on the lenses in order to prevent the infrared light from reaching the CCD sensor. These screw-in type filters work based on interference. As a result, and depending on the angle of the incident light, they have a differing degree of spectral transmission, which in turn can lead to color offsets towards the images’ edges with focal lengths from 16 to 35mm. Together with coded lenses, the firmware version 1.10. corrects these color offsets. (Using other UV/IR filters can result in uncontrollable color offsets that cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!) The new f irmware calls for very extensive programming and testing though, so, regrettably, the introduction of the version 1.10 will be delayed until presumably the middle of April 2007. We kindly ask for your understanding. On the other hand, lenses as of a focal length of 50mm can be used without any restrictions with the present firmware.
Firmware 1.092 ready for download
A firmware download for the LEICA M8 is available under "UPDATES" in the M8 section of our website. Please read the instructions on how to update your camera.
The new version includes numerous improvements based on practical experience. The user interface was modified in a few areas, making handling the LEICA M8 even easier and securer. In addition, the operational reliability was enhanced by optimizing internal procedures. The planned adjustments for using the specialized UV/IR filters has not been included in the firmware 1.092. Even so, we have decided to make all the rest of the improvements accessible for our customers immediately. These are:
1. In Review mode the bar above the image is black and now includes displays for the shutter and ISO speeds as well as the image number.
2. The clipping function is now accessible directly in Auto Review mode, i.e. without having to press the INFO button first.
3. The color rendition with Adobe Camera Raw was improved.
4. If Auto Review and Histogram are both selected in the menu, this is now indicated as „Hold/Histogr.“.
5. The word „disabled“ has been replaced by „off“.
6. Numerous internal procedures were improved and so-called bug-fixes implemented.
Dear LEICA M8 customers,
Today, we would like to inform you about further updates for your camera.
Subjects
The delivery of the free Leica UV/IR filters has commenced
Firmware version 1.10 is expected to be available by the middle of April 2007
Firmware 1.092 ready for download
The delivery of the free Leica UV/IR filters has commenced
As announced, the delivery of the first UV/IR filters to the customers has commenced. The filters are intended as free basic equipment for the LEICA M8. Due to the especially high demand for the LEICA M8 it may take a couple of weeks in some cases until the desired filters can be shipped.
We hope the described measures will increase your satisfaction with the LEICA M8 and wish you continued pleasure discovering the many creative options this camera gives you.
Firmware version 1.10 is expected to be available by the middle of April 2007
The image sensor in the LEICA M8 is highly sensitive for infrared light. This can lead to a magenta-colored offset (e.g. with black fabrics). Usually, this effect is undesirable. Therefore, Leica recommends using exclusively the special Leica UV/IR filters on the lenses in order to prevent the infrared light from reaching the CCD sensor. These screw-in type filters work based on interference. As a result, and depending on the angle of the incident light, they have a differing degree of spectral transmission, which in turn can lead to color offsets towards the images’ edges with focal lengths from 16 to 35mm. Together with coded lenses, the firmware version 1.10. corrects these color offsets. (Using other UV/IR filters can result in uncontrollable color offsets that cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!) The new f irmware calls for very extensive programming and testing though, so, regrettably, the introduction of the version 1.10 will be delayed until presumably the middle of April 2007. We kindly ask for your understanding. On the other hand, lenses as of a focal length of 50mm can be used without any restrictions with the present firmware.
Firmware 1.092 ready for download
A firmware download for the LEICA M8 is available under "UPDATES" in the M8 section of our website. Please read the instructions on how to update your camera.
The new version includes numerous improvements based on practical experience. The user interface was modified in a few areas, making handling the LEICA M8 even easier and securer. In addition, the operational reliability was enhanced by optimizing internal procedures. The planned adjustments for using the specialized UV/IR filters has not been included in the firmware 1.092. Even so, we have decided to make all the rest of the improvements accessible for our customers immediately. These are:
1. In Review mode the bar above the image is black and now includes displays for the shutter and ISO speeds as well as the image number.
2. The clipping function is now accessible directly in Auto Review mode, i.e. without having to press the INFO button first.
3. The color rendition with Adobe Camera Raw was improved.
4. If Auto Review and Histogram are both selected in the menu, this is now indicated as „Hold/Histogr.“.
5. The word „disabled“ has been replaced by „off“.
6. Numerous internal procedures were improved and so-called bug-fixes implemented.
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Huh? I did not even think about this. The M8 is Leica's camera and they have a filter that meets their standards. Leica does not need to account for any filters other then the filters they spec and thereby know what to expect. If people want to troll Leica for not taking all filters into account then this should and most likely will be seen for what it is.
I guess for some people the only reason for posting on the M8 board is to Troll and that sucks. I own the M8 and have no issue- I work with the camera and it's traits to good result. If people expect Leica to write variations for filters other then the ones Leica specs then they are mistaken and if that is not their issue then there is no issue- just use what ever filter you want end of story. If non-Leica filters work to your satisfaction great and if not buy Leica filters. If some people don't like the results with a non spec filter then they have no one to blame but themselves.
PS. I see Ben Z's post was "withdrawn" either by Ben of the Mods.
I guess for some people the only reason for posting on the M8 board is to Troll and that sucks. I own the M8 and have no issue- I work with the camera and it's traits to good result. If people expect Leica to write variations for filters other then the ones Leica specs then they are mistaken and if that is not their issue then there is no issue- just use what ever filter you want end of story. If non-Leica filters work to your satisfaction great and if not buy Leica filters. If some people don't like the results with a non spec filter then they have no one to blame but themselves.
PS. I see Ben Z's post was "withdrawn" either by Ben of the Mods.
Last edited:
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Ah, then I withdraw my posts. They make no sense without BenZ's.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Just to make things clear (I can deduce the type of post Ted answered): Why should any company take responsibility for the response of their product to another makers accessory? Of course they can only guarantee their own filters. That does not exclude the possibility (in the case of B&W virtual certainity) that other filters will work just fine.
usccharles
Well-known
Sailor Ted said:
what is this function and how do you do it?
thanks
^^
Sailor Ted
Well-known
Chuck,
No clue. I just cut and pasted this direct from my email account to the forum as a kind of "public service announcement." That said I'd imagine it has something to do with a clipping warning in the histogram.
T
No clue. I just cut and pasted this direct from my email account to the forum as a kind of "public service announcement." That said I'd imagine it has something to do with a clipping warning in the histogram.
T
usccharles
Well-known
Sailor Ted said:4. If Auto Review and Histogram are both selected in the menu, this is now indicated as „Hold/Histogr.“.
actually i don't know this one either. no where does it indicate hold/histogr.
can anybody help me out here? I think Mr. Ted hasn't upgraded to the new firmware yet. right mr. Ted?
Last edited:
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
If you select Autoreview=on and autoreview=histogram, it will:
a. show the histogram in your autoreview picture on the LCD
b. show overexposed areas in red on the review.
a. show the histogram in your autoreview picture on the LCD
b. show overexposed areas in red on the review.
Ben Z
Veteran
jaapv said:
The problem is my post was deleted but not the responses, so it's left to "deduce" totally out of context what horrible, blasphemous, derogatory thing I might have said. In fact, I never said anything about Leica taking responsibility to make the M8 work with 3rd-party accessories. If they had said "we cannot guarantee that the cyan correction will be effective with 3rd-party filters" that would be totally cool. What they said rather is "Using other UV/IR filters can result in uncontrollable color offsets that cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!" (Italics and bold added by me for emphasis). This suggests they are saying it can't be done in post-processing with editing software. To me that looked like an attempt to scare people who don't know better into buying only Leica filters. Maybe that is not their intention, but neither was my inference taken from thin air either.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Ben Z said:
Fully accepted Ben, we seem to be saying the same thing. Anyway, prelimenary reports are unanimous that B&W filters have the same spectral response as the Leica ones, so no problem there. I think, having experience with Germany and the German way of thinking about judicial aspects, that this was just lawyer-speak and nothing else.
sirvine
Established
How can you read "even by the upcoming firmware" to mean that it can't be corrected in post? Considering that cyan drift is pretty easily corrected today in post, I can't see why it won't continue to be possible.
Ben Z
Veteran
Oh man, things sure do get easily misread and misconstrued around here :bang:
I'm aware that it can be corrected in post, so are most people around here, and there is no reason to believe that it won't continue to be correctable in post. But when Leica says "... cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!" the implication is that there is no way to compensate. Perhaps the implication was accidental due to imprecise translation from German, if Leica didn't mean to imply that then they should change the wording.
I'm aware that it can be corrected in post, so are most people around here, and there is no reason to believe that it won't continue to be correctable in post. But when Leica says "... cannot be compensated even by the upcoming firmware!" the implication is that there is no way to compensate. Perhaps the implication was accidental due to imprecise translation from German, if Leica didn't mean to imply that then they should change the wording.
rsl
Russell
Ben Z said:
Ben, I don't know whether or not you saw it but immediately after your post was removed Olson made a post with some pretty serious outrage at the idea that someone's post would be withdrawn because it had an opinion not in accord with the "Leica is always okay" party line. His was removed almost immediately also, as this one probably will be. As he more or less said, it makes you wonder about the depth of the information you see on here when political correctness reigns.
Seems to me that asking Leica to give us a rundown on the flaws they're aware of, what they're doing about them, and when they expect fixes isn't unreasonable, though it may seem like apostasy on this forum.
Parx
Newbie
rsl said:
I'm a long-time lurker here at RFF, but I wanted to post to comment on the above quote and this issue in general. My qualifications (for what it's worth) are as someone who has worked almost my entire career as a product manager for technology products, although not in the photo industry. I am also an M8 owner, so please be aware that this may color my judgement, as well.
I would agree that, from the consumer's standpoint, it is perfectly reasonable to request that Leica provide the type of information updated cited above. As someone who has spent a considerable sum of money on the product in question, this information would be extremely valuable to me, and would help to keep me comfortable that I had not made a serious mistake in purchasing the camera.
However, I can also see things as they are probably seen by Leica and by the product management group there. Providing information on bugs found to date is a controversial thing to do, for several reasons. These are:
1) The attorneys are no doubt advising that disclosing any more than is absolutely necessary is not advisable due to the potential for lawsuits. Any such information might potentially be used against the manufacturer should there end up being a civil case regarding product defects. And, while the rules of discovery might cause the information to come out anyway, attorneys are loathe to hand such information out on a silver platter.
2) The engineers are probably not keen to disclose bugs either. Bugs can often take an indeterminate amount of time to localize and fix, and providing an itemized list of bugs before the root cause for each has been determined can cause a great deal of trouble when customers ask the logical question, "When will this be resolved?" The answer, as painful as it may seem, may very well be that no one yet knows when the problem will be resolved nor does anyone have an accurate prediction as to when this might be known. Sometimes it really does seem better to remain silent.
3) There are probably some marketing types that don't want disclosure either, since this would amount to handing the competitors a pre-compiled list of reasons why your product is inferior. And yes, much of this information is already readily available, due to the efficiency of the Internet as a tool for information dissemination, but it is a different matter to send out such a list on company letterhead, so to speak.
One might make the argument that the value of open and straightforward communication to your customers far outweighs the risks inherent in doing so. And, in fact, that may be true. But it is a difficult argument to win sometimes, and it is often the more conservative approach of keeping quiet that wins out.
All of this is to say that no one should be considered unreasonable for wanting Leica to divulge more information about potential problems with the product yet, at the same time, no one should be surprised if they don't.
rsl
Russell
Parx, I'm sure you're right on all three points. And all that would have made sense twenty years ago. But nowadays, with the web, it doesn't make sense. It's futile for Leica's lawyers, techs, and marketers to try to hold the door shut when the horse has already flown the barn. Anyone who reads this forum or LUF is well aware of a whole raft of problems with the M8.
The question, at least to me, is, how many of these problems are Leica aware of and how many are they actively working on. It may be that some of the problems were transients, confined to one or two defective cameras, but it's pretty obvious that some are common to a large number of cameras. It's the second situation that makes people say things like, "I love the camera, but I can't afford to trust it." And it's that kind of sentiment that's going to kill Leica if they can't get this camera under control.
Remember, this is supposed to be a "professional" camera. If Leica would pull their head out of the sand and start talking about the problems they've identified that seem widespread, and talk about what they're trying to do to overcome them, it might restore some of the faith I think most of us started out with. I worked with three Leicas for many years and was ready to buy an M8 based on my very favorable experience with those cameras, but I stopped short when I began to read about the early rollout problems. Having rollout problems certainly isn't unique to Leica, and they quickly fixed some of the early, most obvious ones. But it's now pretty obvious that there are persistent problems that Leica seems unwilling to acknowledge, and there's the rub.
I think it's time for Leica to stand up and speak up.
P.S. I've been a software engineer for many years and though I'm mostly retired I still do some software work for local clients. Your point #2 is well taken. I'm very aware of the kind of glitch that's intermittent and hard to pin down. But refusing to talk about that kind of thing can be deadly, and sometimes you can come up with a workaround while you try to localize the problem.
The question, at least to me, is, how many of these problems are Leica aware of and how many are they actively working on. It may be that some of the problems were transients, confined to one or two defective cameras, but it's pretty obvious that some are common to a large number of cameras. It's the second situation that makes people say things like, "I love the camera, but I can't afford to trust it." And it's that kind of sentiment that's going to kill Leica if they can't get this camera under control.
Remember, this is supposed to be a "professional" camera. If Leica would pull their head out of the sand and start talking about the problems they've identified that seem widespread, and talk about what they're trying to do to overcome them, it might restore some of the faith I think most of us started out with. I worked with three Leicas for many years and was ready to buy an M8 based on my very favorable experience with those cameras, but I stopped short when I began to read about the early rollout problems. Having rollout problems certainly isn't unique to Leica, and they quickly fixed some of the early, most obvious ones. But it's now pretty obvious that there are persistent problems that Leica seems unwilling to acknowledge, and there's the rub.
I think it's time for Leica to stand up and speak up.
P.S. I've been a software engineer for many years and though I'm mostly retired I still do some software work for local clients. Your point #2 is well taken. I'm very aware of the kind of glitch that's intermittent and hard to pin down. But refusing to talk about that kind of thing can be deadly, and sometimes you can come up with a workaround while you try to localize the problem.
Last edited:
Philinflash
Registered Addict
Firmware Update
Firmware Update
Yeah, I got the e-mail from Leica with download instructions for the firmware fix for my one-week old M8. I followed the instructions but when it went to run the install routine, I got a message that there was not enough juice in my battery (pardon my paraphrase). So, I charged up a new battery and tried again. Now, I get a simple message as follows: "Attention - Error - Update failed!" There is no indication of where to go from here. :bang:
I re-tried the whole sequence with everything fresh and I get the same result.
I e-mailed technical support at Leica North America 3 days ago, but I still have not had an answer or an acknowledgement, even with a repeat follow-up.
The only good news is that at least the camera works (in firmware 1.09 mode).
It is interesting that the firmware download is executed by unzipping a file to as SD card ON THE COMPUTER and then inserting the SD card into the camera. Apparently, the provided USB cord is only for moving image files, not for camera maintenance.
Net net, so far impressed with the hardware, unimpressed with the support.
Phil
Firmware Update
Yeah, I got the e-mail from Leica with download instructions for the firmware fix for my one-week old M8. I followed the instructions but when it went to run the install routine, I got a message that there was not enough juice in my battery (pardon my paraphrase). So, I charged up a new battery and tried again. Now, I get a simple message as follows: "Attention - Error - Update failed!" There is no indication of where to go from here. :bang:
I re-tried the whole sequence with everything fresh and I get the same result.
I e-mailed technical support at Leica North America 3 days ago, but I still have not had an answer or an acknowledgement, even with a repeat follow-up.
The only good news is that at least the camera works (in firmware 1.09 mode).
It is interesting that the firmware download is executed by unzipping a file to as SD card ON THE COMPUTER and then inserting the SD card into the camera. Apparently, the provided USB cord is only for moving image files, not for camera maintenance.
Net net, so far impressed with the hardware, unimpressed with the support.
Phil
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Philinflash said:
PM-d you, but rereading your post, why did you not mail Leica in Solms, or even call them on the telephone? they are extremely helpful.
Read it again, and are you trying to use a SD card with firmware on it as a card for photographs? In that case you will get a firmware message every time you start the camera up. You should use a formatted card as your working card.
Last edited:
Philinflash
Registered Addict
I would like to publicly acknowledge that JAAPV in a PM was very helpful to me in stimulating me to re-think what I was doing and I would like to share the solution with everyone in the remote possibility that there is another person out there who is as block-headed as am I. (Can I flame myself?)
The Solution: DO NOT COPY THE DOWNLOAD ZIP FILE TO THE SD. If you do so, delete it before trying to run the install. I guess the camera is confused by having two files on the SD that are similarly named. DOAHH!
It would have been nice if Leica NA could have gotten back to me with that simple fix.
The Solution: DO NOT COPY THE DOWNLOAD ZIP FILE TO THE SD. If you do so, delete it before trying to run the install. I guess the camera is confused by having two files on the SD that are similarly named. DOAHH!
It would have been nice if Leica NA could have gotten back to me with that simple fix.