Frank Petronio
Well-known
So if I watch a cop show, the police will stop a car and search the trunk.
How come the people never say, "Sorry but without a warrant you can not search my car?"
Come to think of it, people rarely refuse permission to enter and search their homes as well... is this part of a general culture of giving police permission to do what they may?
What are the laws? I assume the officer can request your license and registration but what about IDs from passengers? And I think the law is they can see anything that is visible through the windows, but can they make you get out of the car and look inside? Open the trunk? What about illegal immigrants in the car?
And what are the practical ramifications? If you refuse vehicular search then do you suddenly start getting broken headlights and refusal to obey traffic laws until you relent or they take you in?
Not that I am planning anything illegal, I just was curious because I hardly ever see a show where the perps say, "Sorry Officer".
How come the people never say, "Sorry but without a warrant you can not search my car?"
Come to think of it, people rarely refuse permission to enter and search their homes as well... is this part of a general culture of giving police permission to do what they may?
What are the laws? I assume the officer can request your license and registration but what about IDs from passengers? And I think the law is they can see anything that is visible through the windows, but can they make you get out of the car and look inside? Open the trunk? What about illegal immigrants in the car?
And what are the practical ramifications? If you refuse vehicular search then do you suddenly start getting broken headlights and refusal to obey traffic laws until you relent or they take you in?
Not that I am planning anything illegal, I just was curious because I hardly ever see a show where the perps say, "Sorry Officer".
ferider
Veteran
Which State, Frank ?
Federally, what makes it grey is "probable cause", I believe.
Federally, what makes it grey is "probable cause", I believe.
anu L ogy
Well-known
What I dont understand is with all of the texting and driving laws being passed, not a single person has asked if its safe for a cop to be using a laptop while driving. Anyone have an answer for that one?
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Probable cause is the standard for searching a vehicle in a public place.
Kevin
Rainbow Bridge
This is an informative and entertaining video (45 minutes) which discusses that issue:
BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
URL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA&feature=relmfu
furcafe
Veteran
You're talking about the 4th Amendment to the Constitution. Here are some basics:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/...rights-search-and-seizure/search_seizure.html
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/...rights-search-and-seizure/search_seizure.html
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
If you're pulled over by law enforcement and they ask to look inside your trunk, glove box or some other type of vehicle borne container, it's because they have probable cause to believe you or the vehicle was involved in a crime. Officers don't arbitrarily ask to look inside of such things on a routine traffic stop unless there's additional suspicision once the officer contacts you.
Stupid criminals always say "why yes go ahead officer." and that's when big finds or the "stash" is usually found.
Example: Individual is pulled over for speeding and upon approach to the vehicle, the driver looks like they're hiding something, tossing something out the window, or there's an odor emitting from the interior that has a drug or alcohol related smell. In the case of a smell of marijuana, the officer will ask to inspect the rest of the vehicle. Driver refuses permission, the officer can request a search warrant and hold the individual road side based on suspicion till the search warrant is granted and brought on-scene.
Second Example: A conventient store is robbed at 0100 and the clerk's only description is a white Ford Focus with 2 white male occupants. You and yer best bud is out driving around that time and in the general vicinity, and you happen to be driving a white Ford Focus, you'll be stopped without having made a traffic infraction, and the officers will ask to search your vehicle. All the info they had to go on was "general" and not specific enough to allow you go about your business unstopped. And until they're sure it wasn't you and your friend that comitted the crime - they have probable cause to request to inspect your cargo areas. They'll also probably ask you to step outside the vehicle, but your hands on the hood, or trunk, etc, etc., and will be prepared to use force if needed.
Then there's traffic infraction stop at night and while the officer is waiting for you to produce requested documents, they are mentally making a note of the interior of your vehicle and looking for anything out of the ordinary. There are simple tricks to see if you're impaired - like asking for DL, Proof of Insurance, Vehicle registration, and then start asking you questions while your getting them. Someone impaired will usually fumble around and lose concentration while trying to both look for the items and talk at the same time and that leads to a request for a Field Sobriety Tests, Portable Breathalyzer Test, etc.
It's all based on State Codes and you can go to your state gov website and find the codes there. State Codes cover everything in the state from vehicle laws to trade and commerce, fireworks, etc, etc and usually even lists fine amounts, incarceration time, etc for infractions of individual state laws.
Then there are certain locations where if a motor vehicle enters, the vehicle is subject to search if a search is requested. Such places are military installations, Federal places such as the USPS employee parking area, etc, etc.
I had it easy, I was military law enforcement officer. You drive on the base - I can request to search your vehicle under "probable cause" and you can't refuse.
Stupid criminals always say "why yes go ahead officer." and that's when big finds or the "stash" is usually found.
Example: Individual is pulled over for speeding and upon approach to the vehicle, the driver looks like they're hiding something, tossing something out the window, or there's an odor emitting from the interior that has a drug or alcohol related smell. In the case of a smell of marijuana, the officer will ask to inspect the rest of the vehicle. Driver refuses permission, the officer can request a search warrant and hold the individual road side based on suspicion till the search warrant is granted and brought on-scene.
Second Example: A conventient store is robbed at 0100 and the clerk's only description is a white Ford Focus with 2 white male occupants. You and yer best bud is out driving around that time and in the general vicinity, and you happen to be driving a white Ford Focus, you'll be stopped without having made a traffic infraction, and the officers will ask to search your vehicle. All the info they had to go on was "general" and not specific enough to allow you go about your business unstopped. And until they're sure it wasn't you and your friend that comitted the crime - they have probable cause to request to inspect your cargo areas. They'll also probably ask you to step outside the vehicle, but your hands on the hood, or trunk, etc, etc., and will be prepared to use force if needed.
Then there's traffic infraction stop at night and while the officer is waiting for you to produce requested documents, they are mentally making a note of the interior of your vehicle and looking for anything out of the ordinary. There are simple tricks to see if you're impaired - like asking for DL, Proof of Insurance, Vehicle registration, and then start asking you questions while your getting them. Someone impaired will usually fumble around and lose concentration while trying to both look for the items and talk at the same time and that leads to a request for a Field Sobriety Tests, Portable Breathalyzer Test, etc.
It's all based on State Codes and you can go to your state gov website and find the codes there. State Codes cover everything in the state from vehicle laws to trade and commerce, fireworks, etc, etc and usually even lists fine amounts, incarceration time, etc for infractions of individual state laws.
Then there are certain locations where if a motor vehicle enters, the vehicle is subject to search if a search is requested. Such places are military installations, Federal places such as the USPS employee parking area, etc, etc.
I had it easy, I was military law enforcement officer. You drive on the base - I can request to search your vehicle under "probable cause" and you can't refuse.
dave lackey
Veteran
Well, Chris Rock has a funny video on "How not to get your ass kicked by the police":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Oh,
Warning: Language!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
Oh,
Warning: Language!!!!!
Last edited:
Your common ordinary traffic stop is a rich source for revealing other matters, like outstanding warrants, drugs, driving under the influence, driving on a suspended license, etc. And it can be very dangerous to the officer, so all in all this is a time of high alertness.
It's amazing how often drivers agree to a casual request to look in the trunk, even when there's a murder victim in there or a bale of MJ. Maybe they hope that agreeing to the search will put the officer at ease and he won't follow through and actually look.
It's amazing how often drivers agree to a casual request to look in the trunk, even when there's a murder victim in there or a bale of MJ. Maybe they hope that agreeing to the search will put the officer at ease and he won't follow through and actually look.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
There was a time when I loved doing law enforcement in the Navy. I was "Auxilliary Security Force" as a collateral duty. After the plane got disabled and force landed on Hainan Island in April 2001 I was activated for a week as a full time MP (it came from our base). After 11 September, 2001 I also was full time for months. Good times...
I've had local police ask to search my vehicle up there where I was stationed (Washington state) and after I got out. It's only happened late at night and when I'd refuse they'd ask me if I was hiding anything and I'd say not at all. This has happened a few times for one reason or another and not once has search warrant been called for, I was simply let go.
Phil Forrest
David Murphy
Veteran
Thanks for the tip (not that I have anything to hide either, but I like my privacy and freedom).
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
When I was in my early 20s, this happened to me and one of my co-workers as we were leaving the restaurant we worked in. About 2 am and we were just getting into her car when 3 cars swooped down on us. Officers got out of their cars with guns drawn and pulled us from the car, handcuffed us and then questioned us about our whereabouts, asked for ID, and they did search her car but didn't ask permission. Eventually they told us what they suspected; a local bar had been stuck up by two people who only resembled us in that they were a male and a female. The police weren't brutal but deadly serious. We were upset as we had intended to go to a party--and commit several youthful indiscretions--happily for me, we went to my place and committed several other, more fun, youthful indiscretions.
The girl thought about making a fuss about the search but decided that, since she would have agreed if they had asked, it didn't matter.
Not the worst first date I've ever had...
Rob
The girl thought about making a fuss about the search but decided that, since she would have agreed if they had asked, it didn't matter.
Not the worst first date I've ever had...
Rob
Frontman
Well-known
Several years ago I was driving through Texas, and was pulled over by the city police. The license plate on my car was from Dade county in Florida, and Florida has a long reputation as being an entry point for drugs.
Anyway, I was told by the officer that a car matching the description of the one I was driving had been used in a drug crime, and I was asked if they could search my car. I said "what if I say no?", to which they replied they would make me wait until a K9 unit arrived to sniff my car. I didn't feel like sitting on the curb for another hour, so I said "okay".
Unfortunately, during the search the police found a knife under the drivers seat in my car, not just any knife, but a double edge knife which I had carried during my time in the Army. I was immediately arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon.
Several hours later I was taken before the judge and questioned. He looked at the knife and saw the Army unit insignia on the sheath and asked me if I had been in the Army, to which I answered "yes". He then asked me what happened, and I described the traffic stop in detail. He asked if I had been cited for a traffic violation, and I said "no". He then asked "why did you let them search your car?". I repeated word for word what the police sergeant said about having to wait for the K9 unit. The judge got a little upset, and said "they can't do that". He dismissed the charges against me, and released my car to me at the city's expense.
Ironically enough, I got a job in law enforcement a couple of years after this event. If there is no probable cause to search you, your car, or your home, you can simply say "no", and I recommmend you do so, even if you have nothing to hide. The officers may not like it, but that's not your problem.
Anyway, I was told by the officer that a car matching the description of the one I was driving had been used in a drug crime, and I was asked if they could search my car. I said "what if I say no?", to which they replied they would make me wait until a K9 unit arrived to sniff my car. I didn't feel like sitting on the curb for another hour, so I said "okay".
Unfortunately, during the search the police found a knife under the drivers seat in my car, not just any knife, but a double edge knife which I had carried during my time in the Army. I was immediately arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon.
Several hours later I was taken before the judge and questioned. He looked at the knife and saw the Army unit insignia on the sheath and asked me if I had been in the Army, to which I answered "yes". He then asked me what happened, and I described the traffic stop in detail. He asked if I had been cited for a traffic violation, and I said "no". He then asked "why did you let them search your car?". I repeated word for word what the police sergeant said about having to wait for the K9 unit. The judge got a little upset, and said "they can't do that". He dismissed the charges against me, and released my car to me at the city's expense.
Ironically enough, I got a job in law enforcement a couple of years after this event. If there is no probable cause to search you, your car, or your home, you can simply say "no", and I recommmend you do so, even if you have nothing to hide. The officers may not like it, but that's not your problem.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
It's illegal to carry a knife in Texas? Sounds as bad as the UK. I carry a machete in my Land Rover. Good for clearing undergrowth. But then, I live in France.
Cheers,
R.
Frontman
Well-known
Ironically enough, in Texas carrying a concealed firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor, while carrying a double-edged knife is a felony (especially and old Ek knife with a long blade).
It was a couple years later that I got pulled over by DPS officers near El Paso. I was driving a pickup truck which had a gun rack in the rear window, and in this rack I had an H&K G3k assault rifle. For some reason the officer thought that carrying a rifle in a window rack was illegal (this was Texas where people commonly carry rifles in such racks), and he said he could charge me with carrying a concealed weapon. I had a concealed weapon permit which I showed to him, so then he said "I am determining that this is a short-barreled rifle". It was in fact a short-barreled rifle, but it was licensed as such, and a licensed short-barreled rifle or machine gun is legal. After half an hour of wasting my time he asked if I had any other weapons in the car. I had a couple of handguns, and I had to wait a further 20 minutes while he verified that I hadn't stolen them. It's often funny how little some officers actually know the law, or, less funny, when they pretend not to know it and count on your ignorance.
jaredangle
Photojournalist
Lots and lots of editing. I'd bet that only 5-10% of the ride-along police footage, à la COPS, gets aired. The rest of those traffic stops likely turn out to be something mundane, just a ticket, letting the driver off without any repercussions at all, or something else lacking drama. They want to show the people who act out and escalate the situation.
40oz
...
You never have to let a police officer search your car without a warrant. If they have enough reason to search your car legally they can do it without having to ask you first.
In other words, if they had sufficent "probable cause" they don't need your permission. If they don't have sufficent reason, they'll ask, hoping you'll hang yourself.
You can't safely assume a tech didn't drop something when you last had your oil changed, or your kid's friends didn't drop something. You will never come out ahead, and only stand to face a citation or even more hassle if something is present you had no knowledge of. Especially with a used car.
I have a good friend who got an open bottle ticket for an empty beer can under his truck seat. The ticket was eventually dropped, but it wasn't worth the hassle just to entertain a bored police officer.
Cliff notes: If the police ask to search your car, politely decline. You have nothing to gain and they wouldn't be asking if they had the right to search.
In other words, if they had sufficent "probable cause" they don't need your permission. If they don't have sufficent reason, they'll ask, hoping you'll hang yourself.
You can't safely assume a tech didn't drop something when you last had your oil changed, or your kid's friends didn't drop something. You will never come out ahead, and only stand to face a citation or even more hassle if something is present you had no knowledge of. Especially with a used car.
I have a good friend who got an open bottle ticket for an empty beer can under his truck seat. The ticket was eventually dropped, but it wasn't worth the hassle just to entertain a bored police officer.
Cliff notes: If the police ask to search your car, politely decline. You have nothing to gain and they wouldn't be asking if they had the right to search.
Guaranteed
Well-known
I've only ever allowed a State Trooper to search my car once when I was 25 and after that experience I haven't allowed it since.
I was coming back from a friends house and got pulled over on the highway and he asked if he could search the car, not having anything to hide I said sure. I asked why I was being pulled over and he informed that I had better watch my mouth and he'd tell me later. Well that S.O.B. emptied every door pocket, the glove box, and the center armrest contents onto the seat, the floor, and the dashboard. He even pulled the back seat out and just left it flopping about, I had no idea the seat portion was just held in by clips.
Then he went to the trunk and emptied it's contents onto the ground between my car and the cruiser(I have a habit of keeping far to much random crap in my car trunk).
After all that he just looked at me and told me I could leave. I asked again why I had been pulled over and getting all pissy with me he said it was because I was missing a screw on my license plate. I asked him if he was going to stay parked behind me till I could get everything back into the trunk so I wouldn't get hit by the cars whipping past me at 60~ MPH. To which he just looked at me and told me he had more important things to do and took off.
Never again.
I was coming back from a friends house and got pulled over on the highway and he asked if he could search the car, not having anything to hide I said sure. I asked why I was being pulled over and he informed that I had better watch my mouth and he'd tell me later. Well that S.O.B. emptied every door pocket, the glove box, and the center armrest contents onto the seat, the floor, and the dashboard. He even pulled the back seat out and just left it flopping about, I had no idea the seat portion was just held in by clips.
Then he went to the trunk and emptied it's contents onto the ground between my car and the cruiser(I have a habit of keeping far to much random crap in my car trunk).
After all that he just looked at me and told me I could leave. I asked again why I had been pulled over and getting all pissy with me he said it was because I was missing a screw on my license plate. I asked him if he was going to stay parked behind me till I could get everything back into the trunk so I wouldn't get hit by the cars whipping past me at 60~ MPH. To which he just looked at me and told me he had more important things to do and took off.
Never again.
ebolton
Number 7614
I'm feeling a little inadequate here because in 37 years of driving, including maybe a dozen traffic stops and a couple of accidents, I've never had a cop ask or show any interest in searching my car!