Used Leica M8, or Used Leica x-Vario?

[kknox]

Both are about the same price. I have had a Leica M8, & sold it. I kinda miss the B&W from the M8. I was looking at used M8's at a shop today, then I looed at the used x-vario. Not a bad package for the same money as a used M8. I did buy a Leica X-113 for the lens, the X-Vario would cover the other focal lengths.

With the drawbacks of the M8, would you buy the X-Vario?

 

[Godfrey]

Both are about the same price. I have had a Leica M8, & sold it. I kinda miss the B&W from the M8. I was looking at used M8's at a shop today, then I looed at the used x-vario. Not a bad package for the same money as a used M8. I did buy a Leica X-113 for the lens, the X-Vario would cover the other focal lengths.

With the drawbacks of the M8, would you buy the X-Vario?

If the X Vario lens fulfills your need, I'd buy one of them instead of the M8. I have one of the X typ 113 cameras now and find it to be terrific, I've hardly touched any of my other cameras (including the M9) since I got it a month ago. The X Vario is much the same thing but with a zoom.

G

 

[YYV_146]

I wouldn't buy any camera with that slow a zoom fixed - f6.4 at the long end sounds insane for a supposedly premium zoom. And I wouldn't touch the M8 when critical parts have become unservicable. Leica has apparently run out of several key components of the camera.

If you want a fixed zoom digital body and don't want the complicated Sony menus, the Fuji X30 is an okay option. And there is the excellent LX100 which is half the price of the Xvario.

 

[Addy101]

I would never buy a small sensor camera like the X30, I would prefer a slower lens to a smaller sensor. Having said this, the X-vario seems quite overpriced, but there isn't that much competition in the "bigger then 1 inch sensor with fixed zoom" market. The LX100 is one, the Canon G1x (II) is another.

 

[helen.HH]

I tried the the X vario at B&H a few months ago... I liked it
Felt good in the hands ... Bigger than its other X (1 &2) siblings
Simple no fuss Menu, its output/rendering was Lovely
Not sure how it does in low light since the store is brightly lit
A used one went for 1599.00
Leica Miami sometimes has very good deals on the XVario

I would prefer it to the M8 simply because its more compact
And I loved the Zooooooom lens
Go play with one and see if your Smitten

I got the M-E instead but recently sold it... Staying with Film, it makes me Happier

Best of Luck in choosing
My vote is for the X vario ... As usual I'm in the minority. 😱

 

[Godfrey]

...
I got the M-E instead but recently sold it... Staying with Film, it makes me Happier

My vote is for the X vario ... As usual I'm in the minority. 😱

helen! You sold the M-E already??! You barely had it two weeks! I'm surprised.

Back to the OP:
Anyway, I stick by what I said earlier. If the X Vario lens does what you want, go for it. The lens speed is not much of an issue since the X Vario lens is excellent even wide open and the sensor will run up to ISO 6400 easily with very clean results. The Leica X line are very simple, direct cameras to use, the X Vario and X typ 113 are that near ideal size and weight, just like a film M, and handle similarly.

G

 

[helen.HH]

I had Miss M-E about a bit more than a month
Lovely Camera, minimal & zen like but my heart was not in it

i enjoyed the Experience and it put me on track as to what I want to achieve 😉

 

[raid]

OP: i would try out the XVario since you have sold your M8. If you don't like the XVario, get another M8 or M9 or ME or ....

Do you develop your film and scan it yourself, Helen?
This is my main reason for choosing the easy way out; I get immediate results.

 

[Rob-F]

I find that when I buy, for a second time, the same model that I had previously sold, I may or may not re-discover why I didn't like it, and then sold it again.

But not always! I sold an XPAN, bought another, and sold it again. Cameras I have sold in the past, repurchased, and kept (so far), are the M7 and the Fuji X100.

To the OP: try and recall what prompted you to sell the M8 in the first place. Reliability ? Repair costs? Parts availability? The need for filters when taking color? Crop factor? Then weigh that against what you did like--the black & white images you got with it. Will you feel the same way again, and sell it again? Or was selling it a mistake? That's how I felt about the X100, and why I bought it over again.

 

[Godfrey]

I had Miss M-E about a bit more than a month
Lovely Camera, minimal & zen like but my heart was not in it

i enjoyed the Experience and it put me on track as to what I want to achieve 😉

Wow, really? Time is just speeding past these days.

As long as you benefitted from the experience, all is good.
I think you might have gotten on better with the X Vario or X .. Closer to the size and feel of a film M than the digital Ms. But that's beside the point. 🙂

I'm out with X ad M4-2 this morning, with the Nokton 50. Makes a good combo, fits in the small DNA 8 bag.

G

 

[helen.HH]

Raid: yes I Develop and Scan ... As for priniting that I send out

Godfrey: One day I may try the XVario or Miss 113 though at present I am content with miss M4-2 & FILM 😉

 

[nongfuspring]

I wouldn't buy any camera with that slow a zoom fixed - f6.4 at the long end sounds insane for a supposedly premium zoom. And I wouldn't touch the M8 when critical parts have become unservicable. Leica has apparently run out of several key components of the camera.

I agree. If it were me I'd get a fuji xe or xpro with the very good f2.8 zoom, or an A7. All have viewfinders, and the fujis are very cheap and incredible value. I'm tempted by the leica X series but have no love for the x-vario.

 

[rbelyell]

yes, even in the subjective world that is photography, 6.4 as the wide open aperture at 75mm is the closest thing to objectively absurd one is going to find. it will absolutely limit what you objectively can do at that modest FL. it also must objectively negatively effect subject seperation as well. no way around it. plus it doesnt have a VF. since you list 'just some old cameras' in your signature, this may be a big issue for your user experience.

 

[Godfrey]

yes, even in the subjective world that is photography, 6.4 as the wide open aperture at 75mm is the closest thing to objectively absurd one is going to find. it will absolutely limit what you objectively can do at that modest FL. it also must objectively negatively effect subject seperation as well. no way around it. plus it doesnt have a VF. since you list 'just some old cameras' in your signature, this may be a big issue for your user experience.

Sure is a lot of "objectively" in that statement. What do you mean by "objectively absurd" and "objectively negatively" anyway?

I've heard so much of these kinds of BS statements about the X Vario it's amazing. And then I look at the photos that people have made with this camera and they're amazing. Which is correct? I'll go for the photos every time.

Just because you haven't the imagination to understand what you can do with a relatively slow but otherwise superb quality lens in a light, handy camera package doesn't mean there's something "objectively" wrong with the camera. There's something wrong with your understanding of how to use it...

G

 

[YYV_146]

Sure is a lot of "objectively" in that statement. What do you mean by "objectively absurd" and "objectively negatively" anyway?

I've heard so much of these kinds of BS statements about the X Vario it's amazing. And then I look at the photos that people have made with this camera and they're amazing. Which is correct? I'll go for the photos every time.

Just because you haven't the imagination to understand what you can do with a relatively slow but otherwise superb quality lens in a light, handy camera package doesn't mean there's something "objectively" wrong with the camera. There's something wrong with your understanding of how to use it...

G

F6.4 is almost three stops slower than F2.8 and more than four stops slower than the new X's F1.7 prime.

The Leica 16MP sensors are a derivative of the sensor found in the the Nikon D7000 and Sony NEX-6, and isn't exactly known for good high iso performance. The RX1, which is about the same price range, pulls ahead in high iso by at least two stops. You get a stop's advantage with virtually any APS-C camera currently in production.

I don't know, but paying for $2,000 for a camera that is limited to shooting mostly static scenes in good light and has no ability to swap out the lens sounds like a poor choice. I don't care if the lens is the sharpest zoom ever built, f6.4 on APS-C is too slow. But to each his own, I guess...

 

[f16sunshine]

Images from the Vario are very impressive.
It seems like a great camera for touring.
Landscape and postcard type documentary images of ones vacation to the beach or pyramids is where it would be super.
For night life and traditional portraiture not so much. It's a horse for a course and there is nothing wrong with that🙂

Personally if I was choosing between these two I would go for the M8.
I had great succes with that camera in the past even with all it's shortcomings.

The Lumix LX100 is the camera I'm most interested in for a digital do it all.
Have you checked that one out?

 

[Godfrey]

F6.4 is almost three stops slower than F2.8 and more than four stops slower than the new X's F1.7 prime.

The Leica 16MP sensors are a derivative of the sensor found in the the Nikon D7000 and Sony NEX-6, and isn't exactly known for good high iso performance. The RX1, which is about the same price range, pulls ahead in high iso by at least two stops. You get a stop's advantage with virtually any APS-C camera currently in production.

I don't know, but paying for $2,000 for a camera that is limited to shooting mostly static scenes in good light and has no ability to swap out the lens sounds like a poor choice. I don't care if the lens is the sharpest zoom ever built, f6.4 on APS-C is too slow. But to each his own, I guess...

You must indeed have a completely different notion of what "isn't exactly known for good high iso performance" means compared to me. I did a test of this sensor back when I bought the X2 in 2012. It's the same sensor that the X Vario and X typ 113 use:

The full set of test images from ISO 12500 to ISO 800, both DNG and and OOC JPEGs, is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25268645/x2-noise/index.html

Plus there's the fact that you're saying "f/6.4" as if that's the ONLY f/stop the camera is capable of. Down around the focal lengths where I bet most people use it most ... 35 to 50mm equivalent, the maximum lens speed is closer to f/4-4.5. Only at 70-75mm equivalent does it drop to f/6.4.

As I've said before: I don't know about anyone else, but my actually shooting tends to be with the lens opening set between f/4 and f/8 most of the time regardless of whether I have an f/5.6 or an f/1.2 lens on my camera. If I only have f/5.6 as maximum aperture, I work the ISO and exposure time to achieve my goals. Three of my favorite M-mount lenses have f/4, f/3.5, and f/4 as maximum aperture, and I usually shoot with them at one to two stops down.

G

 

[f16sunshine]

Do some people know that a large majority of photographers go out with thier cameras in good light?
I consider myself to be a lo light shooter but still.... 90% of what I shoot is in excellent light with iso's averaging 200-400 in my images.
Victor you may use high ISO's all the time but... your situation is more unique than you may expect!

There is too much emphasis on iso in RFF threads. It's only one measure and often not the most important one.

 

[RLG]

I have both the M8 and the X Vario. Total different cameras. IQ compared the X Vario outperforms the M8 when talking about noise and color fidelity. If you decide for the X Vario I would suggest to buy also a viewfinder, the Olympus one is the same as the Leica at half the price.
The lens of the X Vario is outstanding.

Best

 

[kknox]

Lots of great input thanks. I shoot mostly static shots of landscapes & architecture. Lots of family shots. I do have the Fuji X-Pro, XT1 and a number of lens. The IQ out of the Leica X-113 is sharper & I like the look of the B&W jpegs better. Even with the limitations in low light with the X-vario, I thought it would be a great travel camera.