Using distilled water in mixing chemistry

[creenus]

It's been a few years since I have developed black and white film at home. In this case it'll be HP5 at 250 ASA, Ilford film developer and Ilford fixer.

It seems worth it to use distilled water to mix up the developer and the fixer concentrate to ostensibly help prevent dust/particulants settling on the negs. Is it worth it? Is this overkill, or should I just use regular tap water? Naturally I'll be using tap water to wash the film after fixing it, and then using distilled water with Photo-Flo before hanging the film to dry.

So what do you folks do? And what is this Ilford washing regimen that I've run across on RF Forum?

Thanks for your response!

 

[Timmyjoe]

Use Kodak chemicals, but shouldn't make a difference. I use bottled water (bottled drinking water from grocery store, our tap water is crap) to mix (one-shot) developer, and distilled water for fixer and Photo-Flo. And the crap tap water for all rinses.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Page 7 of the following Ilford publication (direct link to pdf download) outlines their advice for washing film to archival standards with a minimum of water consumption. Basically after fixing, fill the tank with fresh water, invert 5 times, drain, re-fill, invert 10 times, repeat once more for 20 inversions before immersing in demin and rinse aid of your choice. I use Ilford's own Ilfotol. I also do four rinses before the last rinse in demineralised water and Ilfotol for really thorough washing, really, only for peace of mind I suspect.

The above procedure works well and uses substantially less fresh water than keeping a tap running into a tank, being on a limited water supply this is important for me. It's perfectly satisfactory providing a non-hardening fixer such as Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam is used.

As far as mixing chems goes: unless your local water supply is unusually high in mineral concentration potable tap water will usually be just fine for mixing chems and rinsing films. I use a domestic water filter with a large canister and filter element on my laundry supply where I develop that filters particulate matter out to a few microns, but this is for keeping the films clean and minimising cloning out of dust from scans and, a last rinse in demineralised water notwithstanding, I've found this does help a lot. But unfiltered potable water works just as well albeit depending on your supply there may be more or less dust cloning required if you scan.
Cheers
Brett

 

[creenus]

Dear Brett,

Many thanks for your quick reply and useful information! =) It's been a few years since I've developed film, just long enough for me to forget the exact process. I could probably put the Ilford wash method to good use as I live in the high desert of the Southwest, where water is always scarce.

Best to you,

Steve Jahrling
Waterflow, New Mexico

 

[Steve M.]

It really depends on the water that you have. Everybody has different water, and if in doubt, use distilled. It's cheap, and reduces another variable if you have issues w/ anything down the line. I always filter everything through coffee filters in a funnel before using anything except for the fixer.

For washing I have a little hose that I can attach to the sink faucet. It's a small aquarium type tubing that will go to the bottom of the developing tank, and that is is shoved into a larger piece of tubing, which goes on the faucet w/ a hose clamp. Don't forget your photo flo (never a water mark if you use this), and before I hang the negs to dry I whip the film strip like a....whip. This gets off a lot of water, and the negs dry much quicker.

 

[jrose125]

The last time I mixed up chemicals, I bought 2 gallons for $3 CAD. Maybe overkill, but it's cheap and you don't have to worry about minerals/particulates affecting your chemistry/negatives.

 

[benlees]

Distilled is key for the final rinse, washing post fixing, and then when you use photo flo. I live in an area with quite hard water. I just use tap water for mixing chems.

 

[Ronald M]

I tried distilled for developer, D76. Grain was hugh, really hugh. A friend in neighboring town had same experience with kodak packaged D76, mine was scratch mixed.

We both went back to tap water.

Distilled great for final rinse and then with 1:200 photoflood

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I tried distilled for developer, D76. Grain was hugh, really hugh. A friend in neighboring town had same experience with kodak packaged D76, mine was scratch mixed.

We both went back to tap water.

Distilled great for final rinse and then with 1:200 photoflood

Distilled water does not make film grainier with any developer. If the tap water you're using is acidic in PH, that would reduce the strength of the developer, giving finer grain than the distilled gave, but would also give lower contrast.

 

[Peter308]

OP, like you I started film Developing again after a number of years.

So far I have developed HP5+, Delta 400 and a couple of rolls of Adox Silvermax. My water supply is pretty hard so I have used distilled water for chemical mix and followed the Ilford rinse routine, but using distilled water for all rinses (5, 10, 20 inversions) as well as thas final rinse with aid rinse. Negs seem to dry without any streaks and very little dust, so I'm happy.

Of course I've not tried it all with just tap water but, as someone else said, distilled water is cheap enough so why go down the tap route.

 

[valdas]

Distilled water does not make film grainier with any developer. If the tap water you're using is acidic in PH, that would reduce the strength of the developer, giving finer grain than the distilled gave, but would also give lower contrast.

Chris, you have just said that "acidic PH would reduce the strength of the developer, giving finer grain" so, logically the one with higher Ph value will have more grain...

But from my practical observations - I have noticed quite significant difference in grain in C41 process when using tap water in Helsinki and Vilnius. I was wondering - what could be the reason as my workflow was identical. Another difference was that in cine film development process rem-jet would come off really easily in Helsinki (without using any additional bath, just plain water) but in Vilnius it was quite a pain to remove it. After long investigations I came to the conclusion that this difference is due to much higher Ph value in tap water in Helsinki (>8). Since then, in order to avoid any need to adjust my development times to compensate for alkalinity or acidity I stared using distilled water for any developer.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I'm using Photo-Flo to get film clean and without dust. One cap per 1.5L lasts for months. I'm not using distilled water for anything.

Bad news is what Photo-Flo prices as most of the Kodak prices went insane for Canada. I spoke with Burlington Camera store manager, they will not buy from Kodak for now, but from Ilford. If you could get Photo-Flo under old price... run and get it!

 

[Ronald M]

Distilled water does not make film grainier with any developer. If the tap water you're using is acidic in PH, that would reduce the strength of the developer, giving finer grain than the distilled gave, but would also give lower contrast.

Two trials 15 miles apart, one Chicago water, one well water. Same result.

We are both experienced printers and have been doing high quality darkroom for years. The prints and negs have normal density , just giant grain.

I have no idea of the root cause, but I am willing to stop here. Have better things to do than solve a problem that does not exist for me.

 

[sevo]

Of course I've not tried it all with just tap water but, as someone else said, distilled water is cheap enough so why go down the tap route.

There are tap water conditioning additives in ready made developers. Using them on distilled water could have undesirable side effects like excess frothing.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

There are tap water conditioning additives in ready made developers. Using them on distilled water could have undesirable side effects like excess frothing.

Completely false. I have been developing film for almost 30 years now and have never seen 'excess frothing' from using distilled water.

 

[Moto-Uno]

^ Having done a roll or two myself , I'm curious what "excess frothing "means ? There's always lots of froth in the film developing container , it doesn't matter which developer I use either . We have very soft water in Burnaby,B.C . Peter

 

[pepeguitarra]

Distilled water must be pure H2O, correct?

Distilled water must be pure H2O, correct?

Distilled water, or pure water, or H2O, or better H.OH, should not contain any minerals on it. It is obtained by distillation (100 percent water). If done with reverse osmosis (RO) membranes, they can only get to about 50 parts per million of total dissolved solids. I cannot get pure H.OH the way I used to. The only place I find "distilled water" is at Walmart, and it is done with RO.

Pure water (H.OH) is corrosive, it has been deprived of its minerals and tends to take minerals from whatever it can, such as pipes, glass from the bottle that holds it, etc. If drunk, it can kill you by dehydration (it will take all minerals from your body organs to balance itself.

The purpose of these comments is to find out where do you get your pure water (H.OH)? The water I buy at Walmart is placed on the same shelf as the mountain pure water from springs, and others that people drink. I suspect it is not pure water, but they have added some minerals to keep the pH at 7.

So, where can I get pure water?

 

[Bill Clark]

Reverse osmosis makes mostly pure water.

In the Navy we made potable water using distillation. Water was very soft due to a lack of minerals.

I use our city water as it flows from the faucet.

 

[Bingley]

I mix my chemcals with distilled water, and us distilled water for the final rinse. But that's mainly because my local tap water is pretty hard, and leaves spots on the negs after drying. Distilled water eliminates that.

 

[sevo]

Pure water (H.OH) is corrosive, it has been deprived of its minerals and tends to take minerals from whatever it can, such as pipes, glass from the bottle that holds it, etc. If drunk, it can kill you by dehydration (it will take all minerals from your body organs to balance itself.

The electrolyte content of tap water is much closer to distilled water than to blood and serum - it is more like "where drinking 10l of tap water in one go will kill you, 8l of distilled will suffice".