shawn
Veteran
He was talking about photography during the day, not needing to keep shutter speed up during low light.
I am fully aware about keeping shutter speed up in low light. But even in that case less than 4% of my library has shots from 6400 or above, about 6% from 3200 and up and about 13% if I drop to 1600 and up.
Shawn
shawn
Veteran
Exactly right! From November to March.
f6.7 1/500 ISO2500 and M-E just craps out...
Yeah, the magenta and cyan color noise/shifts are pretty bad in that.
Shawn
shawn
Veteran
And example of this:
ISO 2500 on the M240 with no NR, full size.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49301389431_51e820723e_o.jpg
Same but with DXO Prime NR, full size
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49301390806_fa55dd0351_o.jpg
Shawn
shawn
Veteran
And ISO 25,600 on a XP2 with OOC JPEG. I don't have anything color at that ISO.
The M10 has similar DR at that ISO but more read noise.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#FujiFilm%20X-Pro2_14,Leica%20M10_14
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20X-Pro2,Leica%20M10
Shawn
The M10 has similar DR at that ISO but more read noise.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#FujiFilm%20X-Pro2_14,Leica%20M10_14
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm%20X-Pro2,Leica%20M10
Shawn
james.liam
Well-known
Excuse me for my ignorance, but what does J-3 and J-12 refer to? Russian Jupiter lenses?
traveler_101
American abroad
Yeah, well it was one of those false moments of gear angst we all go through, except this was really crazy because in this case it was about supplementing the M4-2 with a Bessa 3RM because it could be had at a reasonable price and was in near mint condition - plus it could be mailed through Royal Canadian Post - or whatever it is - because the guy lived in British Columbia, Canada.
And why the Bessa? Because the M4-2 had an on-again / off-again light leak that might or might not actually be a light leak. Then magically the problem went away - but the take away was THE REBIRTH OF KO-FE the indefatigable if slightly jinxed FILM PHOTOGRAPHER.
(or For reason to feel comfy in hotel meeting rooms.
WHAT?
This thread is about thoughts how to move towards from film back to digital.
OH, NO. NO! :bang:
If I'm about just to keep digital camera I have now, I need to use flash or f1.4 lens. I can't see how I could use f1.4 for my photography (walking streets) or the reason to flash people. I'm not even E.Kim.
One thing is to feel comfy about gear price tag another is to be comfy to flash people just for no reason rather than my own fun.
Yeah, walking around with a flash lands you in jail
- though it would be cool to see a series taken with flashes. The other thing is this . . . . though. USING A DIGITAL CAMERA IS NOT PHOTOGRAPHY. It is digital imaging.
I do it myself but it is not the same as drawing light on an actual physical substance (film) and then printing an image from substance to substance (paper).
Why? If all you're doing is digital imaging, why not look at Olympus or SONY or Fuji. All have better options than Leica and are far less costly.
ALTERNATIVE? Well it is not anywhere near the same experience. Nor do I think the result is the same.
Fuji then - with its dual viewfinder.
I've been there - and so have many friends. You get a room near your work and come home less often - or you end up a zombie. No wonder you have camera angst again.
farlymac
PF McFarland
Whatever makes you happy, Kostya. But I voted for the M10.
PF
PF
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Are you sure you are still not?
Family friends, ex-customers, local consul and hundreds of thousands people in GTA commuting this way Monday to Friday.
DPR has M10 test files hidden here https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-alpha-7r-ii/5
Strange, high ISO in the test doesn't looks like on real life images from M10 I have seen.
https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/2/8/leica-m10-review-part-2-low-light-comparison
Yes.
Thank you
benlees
Well-known
Agreed. I live further north, and shadow areas with sunshine are ISO 200, F5.6, 1/150
I did some shots at 800 in direct sun, 2 hours before darkness: F7.1, 1/2900 +2/3. Slightly underexposed but no blown highlights with detail in the shadows. Used X-Pro 1.
ktmrider
Well-known
Simple a problem all to common here. He wants justification to spend money on gear he does not need. We all do it while seeking justification from our peers.
So, go buy what you want.
So, go buy what you want.
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
Respectfully agree and disagree. The old principle ("it depends") applies here. With cameras and photography in general, just what constitutes needs or does not need? Yes, we could all make do with a basic camera and one lens, but would that be fun? For some, maybe. For me, no.
He wants to sell in order to buy. A sensible way for those of us not owners of a mint or a few oil wells to buy new gear.
In my film days I did much the same. Eventually when my architectural practice became profitable, I fell into the trap so many of us have done and bought and bought and bought. At one point I had 60+ cameras including six Hasselblads - three of these were ELs, for which I believe to this day I should have had my head examined.
It has taken me seven years to clear this stock. In the summing up I'm probably a couple of thousand dollars worse off - I suppose I could say I've had the fun of playing with these cameras, but no. Of my three ElL, I used one for a professional shoot of a Melbourne church restoration in 2009, and underexposed the entire lot by two stops. Scanning saved me.
All the Leicas Kostya has referred to have distinct and separate advantages.
He has asked us some excellent questions, and generated much fun for those who answered.
We can do with more of this on rangefinderforum. Agreeing to disagree has many plus-points, and with elaborations/explanations some good data gets posted and shared.
Am enjoying the read. Carry on please!!
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
Guth
Appreciative User
This thread is about thoughts how to move towards from film back to digital.
If I'm about just to keep digital camera I have now, I need to use flash or f1.4 lens. I can't see how I could use f1.4 for my photography (walking streets) or the reason to flash people. I'm not even E.Kim.
One thing is to feel comfy about gear price tag another is to be comfy to flash people just for no reason rather than my own fun.
Yes, I understand that one situation involved film -> film and your situation involves film -> digital. However I thought that the advice you offered still seemed applicable. Perhaps I do not fully understand the issue you are facing. I for one have enjoyed quite a number of the images you've shared that were made using your M4-2. I should state that I am not really familiar with the M-E 220. If you have not used or needed a f1.4 lens or a flash with your M4-2, why would those items be needed with the M-E 220? Is the M-E 220 simply not as sensitive as the film you've been using with the M4-2? Finally, E.Kim?
My apologies for all of the questions — just trying to better understand.
Ricoh
Well-known
I was curious so 'Googled' the M-E 220
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M-E
I try to wear a GAS mask; It's too easy to get carried away. In the rational light of day I'm ok with my M6 Clasic and the M240, even though the M6 sees no more than a dozen rolls of film a year; all processed commercially and scanned at home. I have a fridge-full of film that should last me some time into the future.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M-E
I try to wear a GAS mask; It's too easy to get carried away. In the rational light of day I'm ok with my M6 Clasic and the M240, even though the M6 sees no more than a dozen rolls of film a year; all processed commercially and scanned at home. I have a fridge-full of film that should last me some time into the future.
shawn
Veteran
The DPR file is being viewed 1:1 and without NR being applied.
The website you linked is showing files that are downsized (which hides noise), with NR being applied and with several overexposed files which also hides noise as it pushed the image further up from the noise floor. Even still luminance noise is obvious in those pictures as is banding.
This is the ISO 25,000.
That is full of luminance noise, still has chroma noise, banding and loads of detail lost to NR. And that is at 1.5 megapixels.
Here is about a 4.1 megapixel version of that file. Click it to magnify after it is opened.
Larger Version
Really the only clean image on that site is the one shot ISO invariant. The 5 stop push is equivalent to ISO3200. But still only seeing it as a 1.5megapixel file.
When looked at larger the noise is more obvious but is still a very workable image.
Shawn
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Kostya, the advice here has been aimed at trying to solve the camera/photography problem that you are feeling that you have. What I am going to say isn’t flippant or dismissive. You don’t have a camera problem, you have a commuting problem. The most precious thing we have is time; life’s too short to spend throwing away even a week of it commuting 4 hours a day. The fact that others do it is irrelevant. No one has to do that, it’s a prison of their own making. There is never only one job one can work at, there is never only one place one can work, there is never only one place one can live. It’s not the Soviet system any more for you. People get tunnel vision and convince themselves that they have fewer choices than the multitude of choices they really have, that everyone has. People convince themselves, or let others convince them, that they have no better options, but that is never true for anyone, not in the long run. No one. People not confined to prisons often make their own, then justify it to themselves.
I enjoy your contributions here, but I don’t hope you get a different camera, nor do I think that a higher ISO capability is going to answer any problem you have. A daily four hour commute is a life destroyer, for real; shooting more digital and less film is an answer to nothing, because the minor camera hardware changes you are considering will prove to be both meaningless and ultimately unhelpful in the face of the overall situation.
Best of luck, sincerely.
I enjoy your contributions here, but I don’t hope you get a different camera, nor do I think that a higher ISO capability is going to answer any problem you have. A daily four hour commute is a life destroyer, for real; shooting more digital and less film is an answer to nothing, because the minor camera hardware changes you are considering will prove to be both meaningless and ultimately unhelpful in the face of the overall situation.
Best of luck, sincerely.
shawn
Veteran
bullterrier
Established
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
Kostya I think if you got an M Monochrom, it would be put to good use in your hands. So if that time has come, maybe get the Monochrom, try to keep the Summarit, and sell what you need to make it work.
What’s next, a photography is not Art thread?