validity and usefulness of photo critique
- Thread starter FrankS
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 94
- Views 4K
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
You could give away some lenses 😉FrankS said:
I see your point(s), Frank. I think I am with you on all of them. As Stephanie has pointed out, too, when critiquers and critiqued are as clueless about critiquing themselves, well... you are only bound to have somebody's feelings get hurt (aren't the "artistic type"s generally the "sensitive type"s?)
FrankS
Registered User
Ralph said this and I agree: If I like a picture (mine or someone elses), even if 10 others say it's crap, I would still like it none the less.
AOI Photo
Established
Even if critiquing doesn't help the photographer it helps the critiquer. He or She continues to learn more about looking at art, and no one should ever stop learning more about that.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
That's what an uncle of mine said about his Dogs Playing Pool painting --I'm not kidding-- and his hip-moving Elvis clock. "Likeability" is inherently subjective.FrankS said:
FrankS
Registered User
gabrielma said:
Ahhh! I've just been shot down, by friendly fire! 🙂
Last edited:
dll927
Well-known
My own view about 'critics' of just about ANY stripe is that they are still giving a personal opinion, and it has to be taken as that.
Granted, experience and practice count for something, but I've been through enough graduate courses to sometimes have the feeling that most profs are doing little more than regurgitate what they were told when they were on the other side of the desk. As time goes on and more of them add their 2 cents' worth, it all adds up to make some work famous (or infamous). But does that mean I have to like/dislike it? Isn't personal decision-making a good part of what education is supposed to be about?
I have never been much of a fan of fiction, either written, filmed, or whatever. For reasons I can't entirely explain, I've always preferred that what I read or look at have some factual basis. But get a bunch of history profs going on the "greatest" presidents, and there isn't likely to be much disagreement. So we are all supposed to toe that line, right?
What makes a critic? Self-appointment?
Granted, experience and practice count for something, but I've been through enough graduate courses to sometimes have the feeling that most profs are doing little more than regurgitate what they were told when they were on the other side of the desk. As time goes on and more of them add their 2 cents' worth, it all adds up to make some work famous (or infamous). But does that mean I have to like/dislike it? Isn't personal decision-making a good part of what education is supposed to be about?
I have never been much of a fan of fiction, either written, filmed, or whatever. For reasons I can't entirely explain, I've always preferred that what I read or look at have some factual basis. But get a bunch of history profs going on the "greatest" presidents, and there isn't likely to be much disagreement. So we are all supposed to toe that line, right?
What makes a critic? Self-appointment?
RdEoSg
Well-known
I have a question. Ignore my join date because I joined a loooong time before I actually stated posting here regularly.
Why should I enter any of the threads asking for critique? If half the members here have already said they only value critiques offered by those who's work they have seen and consider equal or better to their own, and you have all seen little or none of my work because I haven't really posted much of it, why should I even bother? By default many of you have already stated you wouldn't value my opinion regardless. In essence some of you have judged me with out even hearing a word I have said.
Why should I enter any of the threads asking for critique? If half the members here have already said they only value critiques offered by those who's work they have seen and consider equal or better to their own, and you have all seen little or none of my work because I haven't really posted much of it, why should I even bother? By default many of you have already stated you wouldn't value my opinion regardless. In essence some of you have judged me with out even hearing a word I have said.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
😱 lol no, didn't mean it that way.FrankS said:
I think your point is valid: as long as you like something, I don't think it should be influenced by what others say, as long as they don't directly insult you. You know, like that song that goes "...you can do anything, but don't you step on my Blue Suede Shoes"
Whether critique is valuable when you are firm in your (general "your") belief or the value you've assigned to an image, that's certainly debatable.
BrianShaw
Well-known
Generally this seem to be the case. Even with "appointed" critcs (gallery owners, museum curators, newpaper/magazine writers, etc) they are obly good critics if we agree with their ciriticism. 😀dll927 said:
BrianShaw
Well-known
RdEoSg said:
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm even sorrier that some have expressed the opinion that they need to assess your qualifications for having an opinion before they will listen to your opinion. I've seen that before, here and elsewhere. If you really want to put your 2 cents worth in, you should just do it. If "they" don't like what you say, "they" will likely ignore you with no further comment. Others, however, may value what you have to offer!
RdEoSg
Well-known
I do feel that way. But I also value this thread as a good discussion. I don't look at FrankS or the others and say well that guy is just an ass and I will ignore him. On the contrary, I am sure eventually I will get to know he and others for better or worse. I will still offer my opinion and if they choose to ignore it that is their choice the same as I have the choice of giving it or not. I would like to hear their opinions about what I just wrote though. No hard feelings in this. I am not upset or angry with them.
FrankS
Registered User
Hi Chris. Please don't be put off by the views I have given here. That's just me and the "I think I know everything better" syndrome I suffer from. When it comes to photography, I do it for myself, and if others like the results that makes me happy but it is not vital. Criticising (I mean this in the good way) a photograph is of limited usefulness to me, because the photo is already made and I can't change it (I'm not a digital manipulator), and I very likely can't go back and redo it if it was at an event. So saying something like, the picture would be improved if the framing had been a little to the left, or if the power lines weren't in it, ... I don't know, I just don't see the usefulness. I may take someone's advice if it's a person I know and respect, or in your case (who I don't know well yet) if what you write sounds insightful and inteligent. Please, jump right in!
BTW, I never said you were an ass or that I was going to ingore you. 🙂
BTW, I never said you were an ass or that I was going to ingore you. 🙂
FrankS
Registered User
Chris, those who participate in the critique threads are looking for your input. I may choose not to participate simply because I'm not looking for that. I do my photography, muddle along, doing what I can, in my style.
RdEoSg said:
My opinion is that if you want to and think it will help you should enter. I think it is incumbent on those who don't feel they will benefit from the critique to not enter themselves.
FrankS said:
I had not read this when I posted my last reply, we are saying the same thing.
It is a personal choice, I think if you feel you will benefit great, if not, that is great too.
Personally, I would enter, though I may not unless I have the time to offer reasonable comment to those who are participating with me.
RdEoSg
Well-known
No problem everyone and thanks for the honest replies. I do intend to post in some of the critiques.. though to be honest.. I don't even know where they are taking place!!! Sometimes I have an opinion. Sometimes I don't know what to say about a photo.
All through college I was on the university papers. Good papers too, award winning and all that. The one thing I was told by several professors and such, was that I was actually a better photo editor than I was photographer.. I am decent at taking photos, I can hold my own, but they all felt I was much better and being able to edit through and work out the best images for a story, work out the crop etc and to express to the photographer why I did what I did.
I can't really explain it in words why I can do it. It doesn't really make sense if you think about it. One of my professors was a photo editor for the Los Angeles Times and he told me this and also admitted that he was the same way.
Of course my photographers didn't like it so much because I was also brutaly clear so if they walked in at deadline and brought me crap, I told them in the those words! 😛 of course.. thats not very constructive but eh.. I was mad!
All through college I was on the university papers. Good papers too, award winning and all that. The one thing I was told by several professors and such, was that I was actually a better photo editor than I was photographer.. I am decent at taking photos, I can hold my own, but they all felt I was much better and being able to edit through and work out the best images for a story, work out the crop etc and to express to the photographer why I did what I did.
I can't really explain it in words why I can do it. It doesn't really make sense if you think about it. One of my professors was a photo editor for the Los Angeles Times and he told me this and also admitted that he was the same way.
Of course my photographers didn't like it so much because I was also brutaly clear so if they walked in at deadline and brought me crap, I told them in the those words! 😛 of course.. thats not very constructive but eh.. I was mad!
Rafael
Mandlerian
FrankS said:
I think we should separate the act of taking photographs (including developing, printing, etc.) from that of showing photographs. As is the case for Frank, taking photographs is something that I do for myself. However, showing photographs is something different. So when we talk about photo critiques, I think it is also important to think about the venue in which those critiques are offered and in which our images are shown. Some venues are private. So, for example, it would obviously be inappropriate to walk into someone's house and inform them that the image hanging on their wall could have been greatly improved had it been cropped slightly differently or had the powerlines not been in the frame. But when we display our photographs in a public forum that is populated by a wide range of people with widely varying photographic skills and interests - such as a gallery or RFF - I don't really think that we can say anymore that we are doing it purely for ourselves. By showing images publicly we are communicating with others. And I'm not sure it's fair to start the conversation and then cut it off arbitrarily. As has been said many times in this thread, we certainly do not need to accept the responses of our critics. However, do think that all who view our images - be they professional photographers or rank amateurs - have a right of response.
BrianShaw
Well-known
College professors... talking about "self-appointed critics".RdEoSg said:
Some of them are very good teachers and others are completely clueless. Sure, they might be "fully degreed" but sometimes have no real-world experience. I'll never forget the time I saw one of my former grad school profs (twenty years later) and he asked me what I was doing for a living. I told him that I was doing exactly what he repeatedly and arrogantly told me I had no skills or competence at doing... but now I'm making lots of money doing it rather than listening to lots of horse-**** about why I couldn't. Out of politeness I asked him what he was doing for a living. He quietly answered "teaching the same courses I taught twenty years ago."
I'm certainly glad I didn't take *that* critic's criticisms to heart!
Oh, that felt good. Everyone needs a cathartic moment every once in a while!
Last edited:
BrianShaw
Well-known
Hey, Mods... that's really cool! I didn't know there was an automated naughty-word editting capability running!BrianShaw said:
Last edited:
