Very curious about MP

Keith said:
Sheesh ... if someone want's to buy and can afford a new MP he should be encouraged to do so. If he doesn't like it he can always sell it and obviously he's prepared financially to take that chance ... Leica need to sell new cameras to stay in business yes?

To the OP ... if you can afford to shop from the top shelf it do it ... I would! 😀
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Dear Keith,

I completely agree. Not only is an MP a lot newer than an M6: it also has a significantly better viewfinder. The rewind (crank vs knob) is a bit of a zero-sum game but I did once have to operate on my M4-P in Slovenia in order to straighten the rewind crank, so the idea that the knob is more robust is not just hype.

If you can afford it, there is absolutely no reason NOT to buy a new MP instead of a second-hand Leica, let alone a second-hand Bessa. The words 'if you can afford it' offends some people on this forum, but for most of my life I've not been able to afford the new gear I really wanted, even though I can claim it against the business, and even now, it involves some hard choices and I can't afford all the new gear I'd like (or even some of the second-hand gear, such as the late f/1 Noctilux).

Self-deception is easy ("Second-hand is just as good") and it can even be sort of true, but I still can't see why you'd want second hand instead of new, if you can afford new, and assuming that there are not other reasons for preferring second-hand: mechanical instead of electronic, classic looks or functionality, lower running/maintenance costs, etc.

Cheers,

R.
 
Adam14 said:
Hello all,I am looking for something different and challenging from the DSLR experience and am curious to hear from any MP owners. Obviously I am very nervous about spending such a large amount of money and not having my pictures being very good when developed. Also,if I do decide to go for it,what is the minimum that I should expect to pay for a lens(new). Thank you in advance.
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You will find there is a learning curve to using a rangefinder efficiently if you are coming directly from auto focus DLSR's, but hopefully it would be enjoyable learning.

As far as the camera goes the MP and say a 50mm Summicron are as good as ever any film camera could be. You may need to adapt to a less sophisticated meter than a DSLR, but its not difficult. Buy second hand, they are built like tanks but are easily repaired or adjusted by Leica or independent specialists. A 35 or 50mm Summicron are equally built like tanks, look out for the obvious lens defects like scratches on the glass, but they will deliver sharper pictures than all DSLR zoom lenses. Look at some web sites or books with typical Leica images from photographers such as Cartier-Bresson, Gary Winogrand, Ralph Gibson, all the many war and documentary photographers etc for a getting a handle on what the camera can deal with and how creatively it can be used.

The key thing is don't approach it with trepidation because its expensive (if you don't connect you should pretty well get your money back if you buy second hand), its just a camera that encourages you to carry it and use it in ways you wouldn't necessarily do with a DSLR.

Steve
 
Adam14 said:
Hello all,I am looking for something different and challenging from the DSLR experience and am curious to hear from any MP owners. Obviously I am very nervous about spending such a large amount of money and not having my pictures being very good when developed. Also,if I do decide to go for it,what is the minimum that I should expect to pay for a lens(new). Thank you in advance.
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I've been using Leicas since 1969 (when I got a IIIa) and Ms since 1973 (when I bought an M3). I've had two or three M3s, and they are without doubt the smoothest Leicas I've ever owned, but as they have no 35mm frame and no meter, the MP is simply a better camera as far as I am concerned. Also, I like the Leicavit, and I like black paint, and a black paint MP is probably cheaper than a black paint M3. There are those who say "black paint won't get you a better picture" and they're absolutely right, but if you like black paint, what's wrong with buying it?

There is no reason why an MP should be 'challenging' - it's a perfectly easy camera to use - and if by 'not very good' you are referring to technical quality rather than your own skills, there's not a lot to worry about in that department: I don't think any 35mm cameras deliver better quality, and I've used quite a lot of them, or reviewed them for magazines. Are you planning on shooting slide, colour neg or mono? Are you planing on setting up a darkroom? What do you do with your pics? If you just make small prints, or have them made commercially, you are unlikely to see any quality differences from any other good camera.

Image quality is not, however, the sole criterion for buying a camera. If it were, 5x7 inch and above would trump everything else. There's also ease, speed and convenience of use, and whether or not a particular camera suits you.

On the last point - whether a camera suits you - I could not disagree more with those who say, "Buy a cheap ____ and see if you like rangefinders." This is especially true of fixed-lens RFs, which for me are completely different from interchangeable-lens cameras, and even if you look at interchangeable-lens cameras from the same manufacturer, the chances are you will like some better than others: my favourite from the Bessa line-up is the R2, and not just because I like the olive drab colour. And I'd rather have an MP than an R2.

I've now mentioned paint twice, and there are those who will dismiss me as being a hopelessly superficial amateur for even considering such things, but actually, I've been earning my living partly or wholly from photography since the mid-70s. Take a look at my site to see if I'm serious about photography or not.

Cheers,

R.
 
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The Leica MP is one of the 35mm best camera ever made, if you can afford a brand new one, go for it, but I would recommend you to get a second hand one instead, as if you don't eventually like it, you can sell it back at very little loss 🙂

As for the lens, it depends on what you like to shoot, but as a start, you got either the classic 35mm or 50mm focal length lenses, for maximum optical performance, I'd recommend the Summicron lenses.
 
Personally I could give a crap whether you can afford a new MP or not, if you want it get it.
If you've never used a rangefinder camera, you might consider buying a fixed lens rangefinder to see if you like the focusing. A Canon QL17, Yashica Electro, Olympus 35 SP are all good choices and get the job done.


my 2cents
Todd
 
Just wondering, is it the digital or slr experience that isn't challenging ? If digital, easy solution is to get a film based slr that would let you continue using your current lenses. I'd further suggest that if you're looking for something else, I'd be looking at anything that has a ground glass. 2x3 or 4x5, whatever, your attention to composition will definitely be worked.
 
Thank you all very,very much for taking the time to reply!
It is very interesting to read the varying opinions re new/used,colour,lenses etc. The idea of perhaps getting a used rangefinder (which you are telling me could be re-sold at little loss) to see if I like this type of photographing experience is making sense to me.Other than this website,can you suggest any other places to search?
 
Adam14 said:
can you suggest any other places to search?
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Head bartenders cameraquest.com has lots of information about classic RF cameras&lenses.

l-camera-forum.com is good forum too.

as for the original question, I'd choose M7 or ZI over MP. auto exposure is a bless at times, but can be turned off when not needed.
 
Keith and Roger - agreed. If you can afford it, go for it.

I only recommended the M6 because it is substantially the same and about a quarter of the cost. More importantly, if you don't like it or want to switch to an MP or M7, you can get most of your money out of it. If you get a brand spanking new MP, and decide 1 month later you don't like RFs or would rather have an M7, etc., you will take a hit on the selling price. There are enough near mint MP's out there for $2500ish that you would have a hard time selling a mint used one for $4000, $3500, etc. At least in my mind.

Then again, if you can not only afford it, but the several thousand doesn't bother you at all if you decide to sell it later for a loss, just buy a new one.
 
Adam, look, others made it clear enough that new Leica will not warranty you great results, so I am not going into that again. Many seem to have miss-read your post where you expressed uncertainty about being happy with the results after development.

If you have the money to burn on new Leica - good for you - no need to defend that. Still it may be a good idea to rent such a camera just to find out whether you like it or not (you do not sound like having too much experience in this direction)

If you have never worked with analog cameras you may find out that there are many bits and pieces that you need to get handle on that come after the shutter was pressed. Indeed getting a used Bessa R3A or similar may save you money on selling your new Leica with a loos should you find out that you are looking for something else. If you find out that 35mm rangefinder is what you does it for you than just keep the R3A as a backup 🙂

Good luck

BTW - keep browsing this forum - there is awful lot of great information here
 
Matus,thanks very much for your advice.Very much appreciated.Yes,I felt that my original post was misunderstood by some.
I think that I am going to get a Bessa R3A and 40mm/1.4 Nokton.The used are less money but with new I get the warranty.
Cheers,
Adam
 
A used MP generally goes for around $2000 to $2200 or so for a .72 finder. With the .58 finder, more like $2400 to $2600. A used M6 classic goes for around $1200. A used M6 TTL for around $1600. To get a better idea of the cost of a lens, tell us what focal length you prefer. The 35mm focal length is probably the best one to start with. You can get a Voigtlander 35/2.5 for as little as $250 or so. Some Leica 35's are under $1000. Some are multi-thousands.

Leica rangefinder photography is addictive. You are about to start a lifelong obsession!
 
You know best what your total budget is, nobody here has a clue, really. I would work reverse: pick out your lenses first, depending on focal length, speed, size, etc. You can guess based on your DSLR experience, and looking at used & new prices, for instance here: http://www.antiquecameras.net/. For example, say, you pick 35/2 and 75/2 ASPH (a great combo). Then the body. Without glasses, this lens set would best lead to a 0.85 M6, M7, or MP.

Then contact one of the good dealers (for example Tony Rose) to make you an offer on a package. If you can play with the camera even better.

I've lots of money in lenses. Never felt the urge for an MP though, my customized M6 (one of 5 Leica Ms I own) with upgraded viewfinder and brass rewind crank does the job very reliably, and I've taken it everywhere across the world. The differences between different Leica bodies are really minuscule, when compared to your DSLR experience, and what you can do with different lenses. Also, I would always prefer an M6 plus M3 over a single MP. Two bodies give you much more flexibility.

I personally think the M6 is more robust than the MP, zinc top and bottom covers are not as pretty but harder than the MP brass plates. Then again, who cares about hardness of jewelery 🙂 But if you look at historic Leica sales figures, M3 and M6 have clearly been the most popular (and professionally used) Leicas.

Roland.
 
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