Video of HCB actually shooting in the street ?

[pesphoto]

Thanks for that link, watching it now!

 

[3js]

Thanks for that link, watching it now!

I´ve seen a clip, where he use his camera(an old one, a screw body) in a very fast way,I can´t remember where I saw it.

 

[Ben Z]

Why does it matter if he staged a photo or two, if you look at them as what they are, are they not still some of the best images ever made? So he might have asked someone to leap over a puddle to make what he thought would be a great photograph. Big deal.

The big deal is that he is frequently credited, and was himself willing to take credit for having captured every one of his shots purely as a result of his genius at anticipating the decisive moment. I enjoy his photographs and think even his staged photos show creative genius.

 

[varjag]

Ben Z, I can't think of a single HCB photo that could not occur in real life and needed to be staged. He stated upfront that he asked the girl to run up the stairs in the well-known shot, and I see no reason why he would lie on the rest of work.

Unless there are hard facts contradicting his statement I wonder why is it worth speculating that.

 

[pesphoto]

The big deal is that he is frequently credited, and was himself willing to take credit for having captured every one of his shots purely as a result of his genius at anticipating the decisive moment. I enjoy his photographs and think even his staged photos show creative genius.

Good point, though I wonder if anyone has asked him directly if any of his images were manipulated by him.

 

[fitzihardwurshd]

The big deal is that he is frequently credited, and was himself willing to take credit for having captured every one of his shots purely as a result of his genius at anticipating the decisive moment. I enjoy his photographs and think even his staged photos show creative genius.

Yes . he is frequently credited for having captured every one of his shots purely as a result of his genius at anticipating the decisive moment. And that is plain interpretation. Actually he never had claimed anything like that, rather some smart a**es babbled him into this nonsense.
Neither his own description of how he is understandingthe decisive moment nor his pics can let us assume the above said could be true. One has just to read carefully what he really had said.

To call him a lyer based on the own personal interpretation of a misunderstanding spread by hearsay is bad style.

This discussion is as old as it is silly and irrelevant, but it does not want to die in the web forums anyway.😡

Fitzi

 

[Ben Z]

I never said or even implied that he lied. What he did not do during his lifetime was make it a point to deny the notion. Perhaps it was a shrewd business move on his or his publicists' part, to allow the myths and mystique to proliferate. Or more likely, after he stopped working as a photographer he didn't look back or care. Remember he had put his camera down and returned to painting long before internet Leica forums came into being and made him into a cult hero of sorts. Something, by all accounts of his nature, he most likely did not welcome or appreciate.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

I never said or even implied that he lied. What he did not do during his lifetime was make it a point to deny the notion. Perhaps it was a shrewd business move on his or his publicists' part, to allow the myths and mystique to proliferate. Or more likely, after he stopped working as a photographer he didn't look back or care. Remember he had put his camera down and returned to painting long before internet Leica forums came into being and made him into a cult hero of sorts. Something, by all accounts of his nature, he most likely did not welcome or appreciate.

Ben

I hope you will take the following in the manner in which it is offered, in a totally friendly way :angel:

I'd like to make a few corrections in your assertions ... as I don't want to see any inadvertent inaccuracies perpetuate itself.

Cartier-Bresson has always affirmed that his work is not staged and indeed, not even cropped except in a few very rare instances. (See, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Pierre Assouline 2005; The Mind's Eye, Henri Cartier-Bresson 1999, Aperture). In fact, he was so paranoid about accuracy, he insisted that Magnum only license his work with an addendum that it never be cropped by magazines, and never accompanied by anything other than his own notations/captions or paraphrases that hold fidelity to his own notations.

Ironically, the very photo you cited as the source of your incredulity is famous for some unusual circumstances and genuine spontaneity ... the photo of the man jumping over the pool shot. HCB spotted the man about to take the leap behind a fence in a railyard, but HCB himself was inconveniently trapped behind the fence. In the spontaneity of the moment, he had no way and no time to get a better vantage point without including the fence's obstruction. Consequently, he took the shot from behind the fence. The resulting original negative (which is still at the HCB Foundation in Paris) has the fence in it obstructing part of his view. Only with great reluctance did he permit the shot to be printed without the left fence post. As you can see, had he "staged" or "manufactured" the shot, I'm sure he would have thought to be in the railyard, not trapped behind a fence 😛

Questioning is a good thing. We don't do enough of it. But so is research into the facts. We do even less of that. Some time ago on this forum, someone questioned Capa's shot of the Spanish soldier being shot in mid-stride. Again, the person failed to do some rudimentary investigation into it. It is now well-established that Capa's shot was genuine (relatives of the dead soldier himself and Spanish military records identify the actual soldier's death on the precise day Capa was in his unit).

Where there is sound evidence of a staged shot, as Doisneau's shot: "The Kiss", let's say so. It is a great shot, staged or not. And it remains one of my favorites. But, may I respectfully suggest that we all do more research before speculating. Especially because both of these photographers (HCB and Capa) are dead, I find it troubling that they are unable to defend themselves, thus my ramble 😉 If they were alive, I'd leave them the task of going 15 rounds with their critics. In any event, I don't wish to see speculation (that can be easily remedied by facts) take on a life of its own online, evolving into urban legend 🙂

In this case, in a strange twist of irony, the background of that particular photo is well documented. So too, exists the original negative. Moreover, I'd highly recommend reading HCB - in his own words - for a more accurate understanding of how really fervently he opposed staged shots, indeed, almost contemptuously. The best source is his personal essays on the subject, including the famous translated "Decisive Moment" essay. These can be found in the aforementioned:

The Mind's Eye: Writings on Photography and Photographers, Henri Cartier-Bresson, 1999, Aperture.

In particular, essays on pages 13-48.

In it, as well as in interviews throughout his life, he proposes that the only form of photojournalism personally meaningful to him is that which is spontaneous, and he had no use for the "manufactured" or "staged", which did not concern him. In his own words:

there are those who take photographs arranged beforehand and those who go out to discover the image and seize it ... for me the camera is a sketch book, an instrument of intuition and spontaneity, the master of the instant which, in visual terms, questions and decides simultaneously. (pg 15, italics added)​

There are, in fact, so many other quotes where he emphasizes the need for spontaneity in his work and vision of photojournalism (as opposed to art), that I won't bore you with all the citations. Just read the book, it is an enjoyable work 🙂

The internet is a wealth of information, but let's remember, also a wealth of inaccuracies. Speculation alone, or in chorus, is not a substitute for facts.

cheers 😎

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Further ...

... for photographers, what has gone is gone forever. From that fact stem the anxieties and strength of our profession. Our task is to perceive reality, almost simultaneously recording it in the sketchbook which is our camera. We must neither try to manipulate reality while we are shooting,nor manipulate the results in the darkroom. These tricks are patently discernible to those who have eyes to see.​

HCB, The Mind's Eye, pg 27.

 

[Ben Z]

Wow, some major HC-B historians here! All I know is I like his pictures, staged or not. If he staged some, he definitely was as adept at it as he was un-staged shooting.