Voigtlander 1.5/50 Nokton vs. Jupiter 3
- Thread starter andreas.pichler
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andreas.pichler
Established
Okay, here we are garden with our dwarf series.
I tried to find out if there is some "built in" underexposure in the Juoiter 3 lens.
First of all, the facts: Epson R-D1, Artificial light from top, distance to object around 1 meter, ISO 400, automatic exposure control.
Two shots with the Nokton, first one with aperture 1.5 (delivers 1/60 sec exposure time), second on with aperture 4.0 (1/15 sec):
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_15_60.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_40_15.JPG
Second series with Jupiter 3, automatic expoure control. First one (aperture 1.5) delivers 1/125 sec, second one with aperture 4.0 and 1/30 sec.
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_125.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_40_30.JPG
Third series: Automatic exposure plus 1 stop over exposing to get the same exposure times as with the Nokton:
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_60.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_40_15.JPG
Fourth series: Optimized exposure in file with "levels" dialogue box in Photoshop, first pich ist the Nokton 1.5/1/60 sec, second pic is the Jupiter 3 1.5/1/125:
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_15_60opt.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_125opt.JPG
My conclusion: There seems to be an underexposing concerning the Jupiter 3, maybe one or two thirds of a stop will make it at the end.
Cheers, Andreas
I tried to find out if there is some "built in" underexposure in the Juoiter 3 lens.
First of all, the facts: Epson R-D1, Artificial light from top, distance to object around 1 meter, ISO 400, automatic exposure control.
Two shots with the Nokton, first one with aperture 1.5 (delivers 1/60 sec exposure time), second on with aperture 4.0 (1/15 sec):
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_15_60.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_40_15.JPG
Second series with Jupiter 3, automatic expoure control. First one (aperture 1.5) delivers 1/125 sec, second one with aperture 4.0 and 1/30 sec.
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_125.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_40_30.JPG
Third series: Automatic exposure plus 1 stop over exposing to get the same exposure times as with the Nokton:
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_60.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_40_15.JPG
Fourth series: Optimized exposure in file with "levels" dialogue box in Photoshop, first pich ist the Nokton 1.5/1/60 sec, second pic is the Jupiter 3 1.5/1/125:
http://www.mgcars.de/var/nokton_15_60opt.JPG
http://www.mgcars.de/var/j3_15_125opt.JPG
My conclusion: There seems to be an underexposing concerning the Jupiter 3, maybe one or two thirds of a stop will make it at the end.
Cheers, Andreas
I've never had an exposure difference like that with my J-3's. I will pay more attention to it on the Bessa R2, most like your exposure system. The faster shutter speed means that the exposure meter is reading more light with the J-3.
Catto
Photographer
Not wanting to derail the thread here, but does anyone else have extraordinary difficulty focussing with the Nokton 50mm f/1.5? I'm wondering if mine has too much play in the focus, as it seems extremely inconsistent...and I know the plane (blade!) of focus at 1.5 is pretty narrow, but still. No problems at all with the 28 f/2 - just this one lens...
R
R
I've had this problem on one J-3 and on two Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5's original in LTM before. On one Zeiss lens, the rear group was loose and had to be tightened. On the J-3, There was too much slop in the helical, and I used a thicker grease to steady it. The 2nd Zeiss lens had "lead a rough life", but at $170 I did not have any complaints. The focus mount was loose in the lens mount. It wobbled almost 0.1mm, enough top throw the focus off.
Try This: Focus the lens on the top of a lamp, or someting else that is very easy to see. Then pull on the focus ring. Push down on it, try to make it wobble. You should see the RF move off of the target. That is what my Zeiss lens did, and enough to throw things off at F2.8. I made a paper liner to keep the lens from wobbling in the mount, corrected the problem. If yours wobbles, I would have a service shop try to tighten things up.
Try This: Focus the lens on the top of a lamp, or someting else that is very easy to see. Then pull on the focus ring. Push down on it, try to make it wobble. You should see the RF move off of the target. That is what my Zeiss lens did, and enough to throw things off at F2.8. I made a paper liner to keep the lens from wobbling in the mount, corrected the problem. If yours wobbles, I would have a service shop try to tighten things up.
Catto
Photographer
Cheers Brian - just doing some more testing now, I'm not seeing much play when I monkey with the focus ring, but I am finding that at close range I can nail focus almost 100% of the time, but when that goes out to ~5-10m distances it drops to 0% and the lens tends to miss by up to a metre or so.
What seems to make the most difference is whether I come towards focus from above or below (so to speak) - it seems more accurate if I come up from close focus to the target, rather than coming down from infinity - but what that means is just that I can't tweak the focus at all once I'm close! There just seems to be too much play in the focus mechanism, in my less-than-expert analysis...perhaps a thicker grease would solve it as you suggested. I'll get in touch with the guys I bought it from (in Australia, unfortunately) and see what they think. Thanks,
R
What seems to make the most difference is whether I come towards focus from above or below (so to speak) - it seems more accurate if I come up from close focus to the target, rather than coming down from infinity - but what that means is just that I can't tweak the focus at all once I'm close! There just seems to be too much play in the focus mechanism, in my less-than-expert analysis...perhaps a thicker grease would solve it as you suggested. I'll get in touch with the guys I bought it from (in Australia, unfortunately) and see what they think. Thanks,
R
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I meant to mention the other day that personally I wouldn't trust any lens that's come from a 'broken gnome!' :angel:
cysasam
Established
Coming back to the Jupiter, do they impart a sort of color cast? Looking at the first 2 shots of the gnomes the Jupiter seems warmer.
cysasam
Established
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Starting new life at this thread, here are some questions:
1. do you users of J3's prefer the chromium older model or the newer black ones (for collectors the black ones seem more rare).
2. Do all types (black, chromes) have coated lenses?
3. Are all J3´s out of focus when used on Leica´s?
1. do you users of J3's prefer the chromium older model or the newer black ones (for collectors the black ones seem more rare).
2. Do all types (black, chromes) have coated lenses?
3. Are all J3´s out of focus when used on Leica´s?
exiled4979
Established
I owned Nokton 50/1.5 for a year, and it's among the best lenses I ever used! I'm so sorry I sold it, but it had to be done...
I think that if you did some "blind testing", that Nokton would be given a red dot and at least 5x bigger price!
This is an old thread!
1) I prefer the older J-3's, my 1950's lenses have been overall the best with some exceptions. The early 1950 and 1951 KMZ J-3's had some "growing pains", and I have seen two with problems. Radical fix: transplanted the glass to another optics fixture. 1956 was also the switchover from KMZ to GOMZ (?, Triplet Logo), I had one J-3 that was optically "strange", and I parted it out. Had another of these 1956 J-3's that had a lot of play in the helical, needed heavy vacuum pump grease.
2) all the J-3's that I have seen have coated optics.
3) The majority of J-3's that I have seen required some adjustment. Some were spot-on, some were way off. Most do best with ~0.15mm or so added to the shim. But you never know. The original instructions with a J-3 advised having it adjusted for the particular camera that it was to be used on.
A sampling of J-3's here:
http://www.ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=97
A 1986 J-3 wide-open, at F1.5
1983 J-3, at F1.5
1969 J-3 at F1.5
1953 KMZ J-3, at F1.5
Last edited:
And the 1956 KMZ J-3, wide-open. One of their last made.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
And the 1956 KMZ J-3, wide-open. One of their last made.
Thank you Brian, great pictures and wonderful info. Do you have pictures of the lenses of these different types J 3´s, so we would know where to look for?
My favorite J-3's are the "KMZ".
First two digits of the SN usually give the year of manufacture (some rare exceptions).
First two digits of the SN usually give the year of manufacture (some rare exceptions).
Filzkoeter
stray animal
omg... zombie thread!
Nokton 50/1.5:
1958 J3:
both wide open on Leica IIIf, same shutter speeds, identical scanning workflow (all white/blackpoints and every setting was exactly the same).
The J3 flares (I had no lens hood on it)... but otherwise seems to keep up with the Nokton (which was slightly misfocused by me).
(Sorry Georg for being my test subject 😉 )
Nokton 50/1.5:
1958 J3:
both wide open on Leica IIIf, same shutter speeds, identical scanning workflow (all white/blackpoints and every setting was exactly the same).
The J3 flares (I had no lens hood on it)... but otherwise seems to keep up with the Nokton (which was slightly misfocused by me).
(Sorry Georg for being my test subject 😉 )
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