Voigtlander VM COLOR-SKOPAR 50mm F2.2

[sebastel]

Cosina just announced the Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.2.

Since compact 50mm lenses are of interest to me, I'm following the news on this one. I'm wondering whether you (the honourable members of this board) had a look on the test pictures provided on the producer's website (follow the link above and scroll down to the bottom of the page).

They are not full size, but the EXIF data indicates a Leica M11 having been used. Honestly, I'm not impressed. There seems to be a fair amount of darkening towards the short sides of the frame. This fall-off follows a different pattern than vignetting usually does, hence I used the term "darkening". My guess is, that this might be related to the shape of the CMOS cells, and their relative location respective to the rear most element of the lens.

Also interesting, that the construction is derived from the Sonnar.

If someone has more test pictures to share, I'm eager to see them.

Kind regards!
sebastian

Admin Edit



Pre-Production lens, spoiler alert - vignetting not a problem
more posts to follow

 

[oldwino]

Cosina always has the worst sample picture...We'll see if that lens really vignettes that badly as soon as we see some early reviews.

 

[Freakscene]

Cosina always has the worst sample picture...We'll see if that lens really vignettes that badly as soon as we see some early reviews.

It’s not vignetting; the darkening is lateral only and does not occur at the same vertical image height as laterally. It’s unclear what is going on. It is possible that the images are not straight out of the camera.

 

[brusby]

This excessive and kinda unnatural darkening off center -- whatever the proper name is -- seems to be common among their new lenses. It's one of the main reasons I didn't buy the new 50mm f1.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I did some vignetting tests of my lenses with the M Monochrom.

I noted an asymmetric component across the sample area due to the shape of the aperture as you stop down.
I have not tested the 50/1 Nokton. The 50/1.1 was not much different from other lenses such as the Canon 50/1.2 LTM.

 

[brusby]

I have and really like a few Voigtlander lenses, including the Nokton 50mm f/1.5 Aspherical and 50mm f3.5 Heliar collapsible. They don't seem to be doing anything unusual regarding vignetting. So I was really looking forward to the new 50mm f1. But, the more I studied images others were posting of the f1 lens, it seems that in many instances the corners look strange, almost like someone burned them in. I figured that if I got it, I'd have to spend time dodging the corners in order to remove or at least minimize this unusual darkening. I like and often employ vignetting for effect. But this seems different, at least to me.

 

[Coldkennels]

I'm willing to bet the ones with the crazy "vignetting" are just edited. Contrast and compare:



Versus:



Not only does the edge darkening on the second photo look completely unnatural to me, it also seems odd that there's absolutely no "vignetting" shown on the first photo if it was genuinely that severe on the second. If I'm right, I think it's a weird choice to run such a heavily edited picture as a sample of what the lens can do.

Either way, after Voigtlander released the recent compact 40mm and 28mm lenses in LTM, I was kinda hoping this one would be in LTM too; I've been on the fence about buying an LTM LLL Elcan for the best part of a year now. If this turned up in LTM at The Classic Camera in London, I'd probably snap this up instead. Ah well.

 

[brusby]

I'm willing to bet the ones with the crazy "vignetting" are just edited. Contrast and compare:
Not only does the edge darkening on the second photo look completely unnatural to me, it also seems odd that there's absolutely no "vignetting" shown on the first photo

Interesting how we see things differently. I see pretty severe vignetting in the first photo too, although I admit it's not as apparent as in the second photo. To me, it's always more apparent at the edges of frame in the long dimension, but I think that's to be expected because that area is farther from the optical center or central axis of the lens.

You may be right about it being related to editing, but I see no clear evidence of it. So, I suspect it's a natural character of the lens and NOT necessarily related to editing. When I first noticed the effect it was in photos posted by people on this forum (who I won't name) who I think are well known for shooting wide open and doing little to no editing. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

[maddoc]

I was very interested in this lens when it was announced in February. Yodobashi Camera has it for pre-order since this week Monday, the price is ¥73,800. Unfortunately, not available in LTM so I had a second look for the Helier 40/2.8 ASPH in LTM, which was in stock again after months being out of stock and bought that instead. It now listed out of stock again, I got lucky.

 

[Freakscene]

Interesting how we see things differently. I see pretty severe vignetting in the first photo too, although I admit it's not as apparent as in the second photo. To me, it's always more apparent at the edges of frame in the long dimension, but I think that's to be expected because that area is farther from the optical center or central axis of the lens.

You may be right about it being related to editing, but I see no clear evidence of it. So, I suspect it's a natural character of the lens and NOT necessarily related to editing. When I first noticed the effect it was in photos posted by people on this forum (who I won't name) who I think are well known for shooting wide open and doing little to no editing. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I checked the levels using the eyedropper in Photoshop on images converted to monochrome and using combined density of colours in colour images. These photos are darker laterally than vertically at the same distance from the optical centre. It’s strange. They look to me like they have been edited.

The vignetting on the C-V 50/1 is less than the f1 Noctilux. Of course, lots of users might find the vignetting from both objectionably severe.

Marty

 

[Out to Lunch]

Could the lens be too close to the sensor? I've seen similar effects with the Zeiss Distagon 4/18 ZM with the Leica ME. There is no such issue using this lens with the Leica SL2S -perhaps because of the added M/L adapter in between. Cheers, OtL

 

[brusby]

I checked the levels using the eyedropper in Photoshop on images converted to monochrome and using combined density of colours in colour images. These photos are darker laterally than vertically at the same distance from the optical centre. It’s strange. They look to me like they have been edited.

I suppose the lesson to be learned is it's unwise to try and draw any conclusions regarding vignetting character of a lens from photos without knowing whether they were edited or otherwise manipulated.

The vignetting on the C-V 50/1 is less than the f1 Noctilux. Of course, lots of users might find the vignetting from both objectionably severe.

Marty

There is more to vignetting than simply amount. I learned that painful lesson when printing for a living many years ago. A smooth gradation can look pleasing but an abrupt transition -- even if ending up with the same level or amount -- can look awkward. It's only a subjective judgment I made from looking at photos posted online, but I got the impression the vignetting I was seeing from the F1 CV resembled the latter.

 

[brusby]

Could the lens be too close to the sensor? I've seen similar effects with the Zeiss Distagon 4/18 ZM with the Leica ME. There is no such issue using this lens with the Leica SL2S -perhaps because of the added M/L adapter in between. Cheers, OtL

I believe the distance to the sensor will always be the same -- regardless of camera type or adapters used -- when focusing the lens at a particular distance. The exception being minor differences in cover glass thickness if you're considering the outer edge of the cover glass in computing sensor distance.

 

[sebastel]

These photos are darker laterally than vertically at the same distance from the optical centre.

That's why I called it "darkening" instead of vignetting.
I had observed a similar darkening pattern when using the super angulon f/3.4 on the M11, which lead me to the assumption that it may be a matter of the geometry of exit pupil versus CMOS cell shape. Of course, it might be editing as well.

Anyway, we'll need to wait for more examples.

 

[Freakscene]

I believe the distance to the sensor will always be the same -- regardless of camera type or adapters used -- when focusing the lens at a particular distance. The exception being minor differences in cover glass thickness if you're considering the outer edge of the cover glass in computing sensor distance.

This distance varies between different lenses.

That's why I called it "darkening" instead of vignetting.
I had observed a similar darkening pattern when using the super angulon f/3.4 on the M11, which lead me to the assumption that it may be a matter of the geometry of exit pupil versus CMOS cell shape. Of course, it might be editing as well.

Anyway, we'll need to wait for more examples.

I understand. The CMOS cell shape is even, and the microlenses are angled the same at the top of the frame as they are the same distance laterally. It might be as @brusby suggests, that performance is fairly even to 12mm image height but falls off rapidly after that - this would make the central 24mm circle of the frame even but the sides rapidly darker. This might be the case, or the photos might have been edited.

Marty

 

[Freakscene]

I note that there are numerous RFFers who could make fantastic shots for Cosina, but their demo photos are pretty universally ordinary.

 

[sebastel]

the funny part is, that the darkening pattern is not circular.

 

[Freakscene]

the funny part is, that the darkening pattern is not circular.

That’s the part I can’t figure out.

 

[brusby]

This distance varies between different lenses.

True, but I think the question asked was whether one lens (he specifically mentions the Zeiss Distagon 4/18 ZM) will have a different focal distance to the sensor when used with different cameras and/or adapters (mentions the Leica ME, Leica SL2S and M/L adapter). Hope I'm not being too pedantic, just trying to be clear.

 

[Freakscene]

True, but I think the question asked was whether one lens (he specifically mentions the Zeiss Distagon 4/18 ZM) will have a different distance to the sensor when used with different cameras and/or adapters (mentions the Leica ME, Leica SL2S and M/L adapter). Hope I'm not being too pedantic, just trying to be clear.

Understood, yes. No problem. The distance is the same, but there is a huge difference between the microlens array on the digital M cameras which are designed for lenses with short mount to focal plane distance and high angles of incidence, and the SL2S which is designed for telecentric lenses. That's what will drive that difference.

Marty