Voitlander 28/2, Zeiss Biogon 28/2.8, CV 28/3.5? What 28mm lens for CLE?

[james.liam]

Low light on the streets of Toronto (those are dark streets) on bw film @3200 is 1/8 for f2.5/2.8. Even Yonge, King, Queen in DT are dark streets.

Color Skopar is way too overpriced now due to its rarity.

ZM 28 2.8 ain't in the low price range as well. I mean, price/results ratio might be not so good under low light.

VM 28/2 seems to be priced more well adequate and it is closer to low light, but still no cigar, IMO.

Here is TTartisans 28 1.4. This is low light lens and results I have seen on BW films are impressive. And so its cost. Just not sure if its diameter will not block RF, framelines windows on CLE. It should be relatively easy to check without lens, but with CLE in possession.

To be honest, I would just get used Nokton 40 1.4 for low light and Orion-15 for close street work.Compact duo to match CLE.

And during Covid you are better with 40mm range for now. 28 will bring you too close, if you want decent street picture, not architectural shot, which Toronto downtown lost its charm for.....Canada is about to be one of the last counties to get vaccines for regular citizens.

-CV 3,5/28 is selling for ~US$400 when you find them. Justified cost. A little extra for a really high-preforming, tiny lens on film.
-MS Optics 2/28!
-The TTfArtisans is a big ass-lens on an M, even more so on a CLE. Probably heavier than the entire body.
-40 Nokton is a smart suggestion; small and places you at a safe distance
-sorry to hear Monsieur Trudeau in saving the vaccine for polar bears and caribou. Or something.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

these are very nice photos you posted here. How do you focus with the LTM on the M-mount? Does the adapter still allow for precise focusing?

Yes, the Screwmount to M adapter preserves rangefinder coupling and precise focus. You do have to be careful to get a good adapter. For precise focus, the adapter must be EXACTLY 1mm (0.0394 inches) thick. If it is too thick or too thin, focus calibration will be wrong. Cheap off-brand ones are often bad, and unfortunately I have encountered two original Leica adapters that were too thick. One was a mere 1/1000 of an inch too thick and that was enough to throw the focus off..the lens would not focus to infinity!

 

[jjcha]

The 28mm F1.4 TT Artisans is insane on my M10. I actually got the Zeiss ZM because the TT Artisans is just too big for daily carry on the M10. It's hard to imagine using it on the CLE except for special situations/projects. Mine is currently in transit so I can't say whether it blocks the CLE rangefinder patch or not. I do intend on trying it, since I love how the TT Artisans renders, but won't be able to for maybe another month.

I'm not sure if the VM 28mm F2.0 would block the patch. I've used it on occasion but not on a CLE and I don't have one here to check. Personally, I don't think it would, but I can't verify for sure.

The reason the Zeiss 28mm + lens hood blocks the patch isn't necessarily because the Zeiss is big for a 28mm F2.8 - it's because the circular lens hood has a fat diameter and, as a result, the edge just sits right in front of the rangefinder patch. Like I said, I cant' verify for sure, I don't think the VM has that issue.

But there is the separate issue of viewfinder blockage which may or may not be important to you.

I sympathize with what the OP is looking for - I think we both use our CLEs in a similar fashion. I think there's an argument for a F2.0 lens, but it's not enough for me personally to get the VM.

A F2.8 is fine in most situations but once it starts to get dark, with the film I'm likely to have loaded in the CLE topping out at ISO800, F2.8 just isn't enough. The F2.0 would help but for my night shooting, I dunno, I leave the film at home and stick to digital.

 

[aizan]

I'd look for an M-Rokkor with a mild case of white spots.

As long as the spots are confined to the surface of the black paint, there will be no effect on the lens coatings.

You'll get yourself a nice bargain for a 28mm!

 

[Bingley]

Another vote for the CV Skopar 28mm f3.5. It’s tiny, solidly built, and does lovely things with bw film. I’ve had my sample for over ten years, shot extensively with it, and it’s one of those lenses I’d never sell. It’s a go-to lens on my IIIc. Some pics are below. Earlier this year, I purchased (new) the Ultron 28mm f2.0, mainly for use shooting indoors on my ME 240... then the pandemic struck, lockdown ensued, and my plans for shooting inside bars, restaurantsl, and cafes were shelved... so I haven’t shot w/ that lens much.

Cliff dwellings by bingley0522, on Flickr

Granite Pillows by bingley0522, on Flickr

Morning, Peeler Lake by bingley0522, on Flickr

Roots and Rocks by bingley0522, on Flickr

It also does nicely close up and in color:

E at Greens by bingley0522, on Flickr

 

[maigo]

The Head Bartender has a used 28/2 Ultron for $450 with box, caps, etc.

https://shop.cameraquest.com/voigtlander-leica-mount-lenses/voigtlander-28mm-f/2-used-ultron-lens/


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[IgalSc]

I have mine with a 28-90 Leitz adapter on an M9M. No problems whatsoever. The Voigtländer adapter is equally well-made and accurate. Can't speak for the multiplicity of Mainland Chinese knockoffs, but I personally avoid them.

thanks, James!

 

[stevierose]

The CV 28 f/3.5 is a tiny jewel of a lens that is the perfect batch for the CLE. With it mounted you can easily slip the CLE into a jacket pocket. Image quality is excellent. If I can figure out how to add a photo to this post I will show the lens mounted on the camera.

 

[jmonat7]

I think I may fall into the small category that has used all 3 and the short answer is simple, they are all exceptional lenses. The 28 Ultron is great optically with very modern rendering, has near perfect handling and a swell built in hood. Cons of the 28 Ultron are the size (which never really bothered me, it is about the right size for an f2 wide angle) and the color. There is nothing bad about the color rendition but it has the typical modern voigtlander colors that are a little neutral for my taste, more on that in a little.

Untitled (282).jpg by Joe Monat, on Flickr

The 28 Biogon is exceptional optically, on par with the ASPH elmarits, it has the normal ZM handling (focus nub, 3rd stops) which isn't as good as the Ultron in my opinion. It is a better performer than the Ultron but in normal shooting it would be hard to tell the difference. Size is nice and small with minimal VF blockage, the hood makes it way worse so I never use it since it is very flare resistant to start. Colors are very contrasty and warm which is my preferred style but that is very objective. I do think they are a step above the ultron. Cons would be price, it is double the price of the Ultron while losing a stop and a little messier handling but it makes up for it in image quality.

L1005640.jpg by Joe Monat, on Flickr

Lastly the CV Skopar 28. This lens in my opinion is much closer in rendering to the ZM Biogon than it is the Ultron, even though the branding is still Voigtlander. First of all, the lens is tiny and handling is still sublime. The focus knob is my favorite style but that is obviously very subjective. Build quality is also the best of the 3 despite the small size. In terms of image quality it is a very high contrast optic with warm colors. Just like the ZM Biogon but with a softer touch, think rendering of the ZM 50 Sonnar in the form of a 28mm lens. That is what this lens will give you. The Ultron is neutral with cooler tones, the Biogon and Skopar warm with high contrast. The skopar differing from the Biogon by having less of a clinical look.

filmscan (26) by Joe Monat, on Flickr

You can't go wrong with any of the 3, it all depends on what you value most out of a lens.

 

[IgalSc]

Low light on the streets of Toronto (those are dark streets) on bw film @3200 is 1/8 for f2.5/2.8. Even Yonge, King, Queen in DT are dark streets...

I don't think it is cool to get too close to people at this moment. Many are wearing masks on the streets in Toronto DT. And you never know why...

Nice to meet a fellow almost Torontonian 🙂 Yes, unfortunately for photographers, the streets are too dark. I do push 3200 to 6400 and sometimes to 12800. I agree regarding coming close to people, but at this point I'm looking at wider than 40mm lens for more street than people.

-CV 3,5/28 is selling for ~US$400 when you find them. Justified cost. A little extra for a really high-preforming, tiny lens on film.
-sorry to hear Monsieur Trudeau in saving the vaccine for polar bears and caribou. Or something.

CV 3,5/28 is selling for closer to $550 and up, and while I like the photos made with it, I do love shooting in the dark, so 2 extra stops are really missing from 3.5. I'll rest my case regarding our PM, cause this is a photography forum, otherwise it would turn political and very heated

Yes, the Screwmount to M adapter preserves rangefinder coupling and precise focus. You do have to be careful to get a good adapter. For precise focus, the adapter must be EXACTLY 1mm (0.0394 inches) thick.

Thank you for this info!

The 28mm F1.4 TT Artisans is insane on my M10. I actually got the Zeiss ZM because the TT Artisans is just too big for daily carry on the M10. It's hard to imagine using it on the CLE except for special situations/projects.
I'm not sure if the VM 28mm F2.0 would block the patch. I've used it on occasion but not on a CLE and I don't have one here to check. Personally, I don't think it would, but I can't verify for sure.

I loved the 7Artisans lens reviews and photos, but I'm afraid it's too big.

I'd look for an M-Rokkor with a mild case of white spots.

As long as the spots are confined to the surface of the black paint, there will be no effect on the lens coatings.

You'll get yourself a nice bargain for a 28mm!

Taking into account that even "mint" examples for about $500US are having the little white dots, I wouldn't call it a bargain

Another vote for the CV Skopar 28mm f3.5.

I love your photos, but I need a lens for low light as well

The Head Bartender has a used 28/2 Ultron for $450 with box, caps, etc.

Thanks!

 

[IgalSc]

The CV 28 f/3.5 is a tiny jewel of a lens that is the perfect batch for the CLE. With it mounted you can easily slip the CLE into a jacket pocket. Image quality is excellent. If I can figure out how to add a photo to this post I will show the lens mounted on the camera.

Tnanks, Steve

I think I may fall into the small category that has used all 3 and the short answer is simple, they are all exceptional lenses....
You can't go wrong with any of the 3, it all depends on what you value most out of a lens.

Wow. these images are exceptional, and thank you for the info. By your signature I guess you didn't use these lenses on the CLE though?

 

[jmonat7]

Tnanks, Steve


Wow. these images are exceptional, and thank you for the info. By your signature I guess you didn't use these lenses on the CLE though?

Thank you. And no I did not. My signature is not too accurate. The VM and CV film shots are on an M4 and ZM shot is on my M9. I believe the CLE VF magnification is 0.58 right? So VF blockage would be even less of an issue than a standard 0.72 M.

 

[IgalSc]

I believe the CLE VF magnification is 0.58 right? So VF blockage would be even less of an issue than a standard 0.72 M.

correct. thank you again!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

If it is for night streets, not "modern" street photography, why not take Brassai approach?
Streets aren't crowded at this moment. Results are going to be better than handheld @f2 and with pushed film.

XA on tripod and @400.

 

[aizan]

When I checked completed items, there were actual mint ones for $600 that didn’t have white spots. There were also mint and EX+ (according to the “old” definitions) ones with mild cases of white spots for around $330. That’s what I was calling a bargain. Nice cosmetic condition aside from spots that don’t affect image quality.

 

[IgalSc]

If it is for night streets, not "modern" street photography, why not take Brassai approach?
Streets aren't crowded at this moment. Results are going to be better than handheld @f2 and with pushed film.

I do tripod sometimes, and then I can do even with 100 film.
Still, it’s a different mindset, and I don’t always have the mood to go out with the tripod

When I checked completed items, there were actual mint ones for $600 that didn’t have white spots. There were also mint and EX+ (according to the “old” definitions) ones with mild cases of white spots for around $330. That’s what I was calling a bargain. Nice cosmetic condition aside from spots that don’t affect image quality.

I’m watching eBay for Minolta M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for two month now and I’ve not seen a mild case of spots for that low

 

[IgalSc]

Any thoughts on Elmarit 28?
It looks like it can be bought for a tiny fraction more than M-Rokkor?
How good is it? I know I’ll loose a stop.

 

[james.liam]

CV 3,5/28 is selling for closer to $550 and up, and while I like the photos made with it, I do love shooting in the dark, so 2 extra stops are really missing from 3.5. I'll rest my case regarding our PM, cause this is a photography forum, otherwise it would turn political and very heated

Found mine in perfect shape for US$400 about 2 years ago from a well-known reseller; you have to be patient because flEaBay prices are pie-in-the-sky. Although, I see Head Bartender has got a silver one up for sale for a cool grand. Wow.
The vaccine comment was intended for Ko.Fe, a man with a good sense of humor who mentioned it, not you. Your PM is safe (always thought his mom was a pretty lady and big personality back in the day!).

Sounds as though you really do need speed. Head Bartender has a CV 2/28 for $449. A 28 Elmarit pre-ASPH can still be US$1100-1400. You might consider saving up for a film-era 28 Summicron v.1 ASPH as prices have been depressed lately, around US $2000. Though not a small lens, gorgeous on film.

 

[Archlich]

When I checked completed items, there were actual mint ones for $600 that didn’t have white spots. There were also mint and EX+ (according to the “old” definitions) ones with mild cases of white spots for around $330. That’s what I was calling a bargain. Nice cosmetic condition aside from spots that don’t affect image quality.

If I'd be buying a M-Rokkor I'd make sure it has been cleaned and inner wall of the lens barrel sealed with a different material. Otherwise white spots will inevitably show up given time.

It really is a top performer. Guess nothing can be perfect...

 

[IgalSc]

Found mine in perfect shape for US$400 about 2 years ago from a well-known reseller; you have to be patient because flEaBay prices are pie-in-the-sky. Although, I see Head Bartender has got a silver one up for sale for a cool grand. Wow.
The vaccine comment was intended for Ko.Fe, a man with a good sense of humor who mentioned it, not you. Your PM is safe (always thought his mom was a pretty lady and big personality back in the day!).

Sounds as though you really do need speed. Head Bartender has a CV 2/28 for $449. A 28 Elmarit pre-ASPH can still be US$1100-1400. You might consider saving up for a film-era 28 Summicron v.1 ASPH as prices have been depressed lately, around US $2000. Though not a small lens, gorgeous on film.

A lot of water flown by in the last two years, especially in terms of film photography prices
I know you were replying not to me regarding our PM, that I’d wish would not be our PM
I saw couple of Elmarit 28 for around $550US in nice shape


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