Wabi Sabi Photo Collective

[robert blu]

Interesting thread. This said, I have to agree with Ko.Fe that most of the published photos on this site
https://www.facebook.com/wabisabiphotos/ have little to do with the concept.

I have not yet understood what wabi wabi is, I think it's something we feel more than understand or explain in words.

Anyway for what my feeling of it is I agree with both Ko.Fe and you about the photos showed...
robert

 

[mdarnton]

I ran the page past a friend of mine who is Japanese and a working artist. Her tactful comment was that westerners often have different definitions for words. 🙂

 

[kuuan]

..This thread reminds me of the "Nudes" thread over on Large Format forums - too many words, too little pictures. 🙂
~Joe

unlike over there, here this may be a good thing 😉


Untitled by Andreas, on Flickr

 

[FrankS]

Such negativity. Kinda sad at RFF.

 

[robert blu]

I find interesting to read different views about this subject...which is not an easy one...
It could be a positive development if we start to post photos with our interpretation of the concept...not sure if here or should we have a different thread?
robert

 

[kuuan]

negativity? in hope my last comment didn't prompt that. So far it seems that we, or most, 'don't know' but are investigating Wabi Sabi. The collective had gone ahead, posted a host of photos under the banner of Wabi Sabi, apparently without much understanding, and later decided to remove the photos. If members here, so far, have been hesitant to post photos it's because of superior respect and caution. That's very, very positive and so was the intent and meaning of my comment which furthermore was made in jest.

 

[daveleo]

Such negativity. Kinda sad at RFF.

I don't think it's strong negativity, but rather (at least on my part) cynicism rooted it confusion. (Jees, did I write that?😱)
Really. At the moment, I don't get it so I am (mentally) poking at the concept of "wabi sabi" to see how it moves.

 

[FrankS]

Why not go with the definition given by the wabi sabi website?

"Wabi-sabi (侘寂) represents a comprehensive Japanese world view or aesthetic centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is “imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete”. It is a concept derived from the Buddhist teaching of the three marks of existence (三法印 sanbōin), specifically impermanence (無常 mujō), the other two being suffering (苦 ku) and emptiness or absence of self-nature (空 kū).

Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity (roughness or irregularity), simplicity, economy, austerity, modesty, intimacy, and appreciation of the ingenuous integrity of natural objects and processes."

Personally, I would add: seeing beauty in the banal.

 

[FrankS]

I would agree, photos of objects that exhibit the concept, are not the concept.

Photos that exhibit the concept (let's say sadness which everyone understands) are not the concept. No argument from me, but was that even claimed?


I could think of ways to express Wabi-sabi using photo materials and paper, but probably not common film or digital.

It is a photo group, so they're using photography. I don't understand the nit-picking. Any artist/artistic statement can be shot to hell.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Frank...perhaps put your next contribution to this thread in UPPER CASE RED. JUST SO THAT WE DON'T MISS THE POINT. Cheers, Peter

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Round two of learning curve. 🙂

We have FrankS photo which is perfect fit for nice imperfections.
We have kuuan photo for rustic loneliness.

If it is all within concept of wasa.. sorry, Wabi Sabi, I admit - it is complicated.

Plus, tossing in of broken bowl... I think, every Red Green Show episode with duct tape has sweet wabisabiness in it!

 

[FrankS]

Wabi Sabi is a concept that can be illustrated like most any concept by a photograph of a suitable subject, IMO, so I reject photomoof's suggestion that it is not possible with photography.

Unless it is done in a self-deprecating manner, an artist statement where the personal motivation and influences behind an artist's work are given often sounds boastful and/or pretentious. Perhaps that's the basis of the negativity here?

One does not need to be Japanese to have an understanding of a concept whose Japanese name is being used here. The concept enveloping the acceptance (and celebration) of impermanence/transience, imperfection, etc. can be used by non-Japanese photographers as well.

 

[FrankS]

"I probably was not clear. I am only saying none of the photos from the group are wabi sabi as an object. "

Again I say that that was never claimed.
The concept of Wabi Sabi is only claimed to be an underlying motivation/influence for this group.

How can one even make an object that is Wabi Sabi? All one can do is make an object (be it photograph or bowl) that illustrates the concept.

 

[FrankS]

OK fair enough, but if that is the case, then I really don't see it in the photos.

Honestly, I don't see it in each and every photography posted there either. 😱

 

[kuuan]

the apparent lack of photos is impressive and came as a surprise ( there was one photo posted that I deemed best, but it was removed )
Wabi Sabi certainly would be served best if only acclaimed Japanese artist were posting here! how great would that be!
the photos posted by the 'Collective' seemed to be far off, showing alternatives imperative. I have 'an acquired taste' of Wabi Sabi that came from being with a Japanese artist, in Japan, some while every year since the late 90s.
Wabi Sabi, I believe, is entrenched in Japanese culture and mind and that nevertheless a Japanese artist may strive all his life to only get close to it. I wished our samples were judged by a Japanese art critic, teaching us Japanese aesthetics and art

 

[coelacanth]

Interesting discussion, and definitely a tricky concept to interpret. I feel one could "translate" the concept of Wabi-Sabi into his/her own photography style and philosophy if you want to explore the concept in the world of photography.

Here is my take as a Japanese immigrant in the US... 😉


reading continues by Suguru Nishioka, on Flickr

Another interpretation of mine.


Two eggs by Suguru Nishioka, on Flickr

 

[FrankS]

the apparent lack of photos is impressive and came as a surprise ( there was one photo posted that I deemed best, but it was removed )
Wabi Sabi certainly would be served best if only acclaimed Japanese artist were posting here! how great would that be!
the photos posted by the 'Collective' seemed to be far off, showing alternatives imperative. I have 'an acquired taste' of Wabi Sabi that came from being with a Japanese artist, in Japan, some while every year since the late 90s.
Wabi Sabi, I believe, is entrenched in Japanese culture and mind and that nevertheless a Japanese artist may strive all his life to only get close to it. I wished our samples were judged by a Japanese art critic, teaching us Japanese aesthetics and art

I disagree that the Japanese have exclusive understanding and accurate realization of this concept of Wabi Sabi.

 

[kuuan]

I disagree that the Japanese have exclusive understanding and accurate realization of this concept of Wabi Sabi.

I didn't say that. As an 'individual understanding or realization', as you say, no need to be Japanese.
Wabi Sabi as it presents itself in and through Japanese culture, that happens in Japan.I suspect that some Japanese artist might dispute that Wabi Sabi can be 'understood or realized'. nothing perfect or completed here, nothing to show for but a humble intent

 

[FrankS]

"Wabi Sabi as it presents itself in and through Japanese culture, that happens in Japan."

Cant argue when presented with the underlined requisite, but it is a concept that can be understood by anyone, anywhere, like any other concept.

 

[kuuan]

"Wabi Sabi as it presents itself in and through Japanese culture, that happens in Japan."

Cant argue when presented with the underlined requisite, but it is a concept that can be understood by anyone, anywhere, like any other concept.

again I agree with the non exclusivity Frank after all I am not Japanese and try to get some grips on Wabi Sabi. But being in Japan helps 🙂 My Wabi Sabi are some precious memories and feelings, maybe a sensitivity and feeling. I believe the idea of understanding a concept is too positivistic for the emptiness and imperfection of Wabi Sabi