wanna join Leica club...

[wen]

😕

hello, I am new here, found out this site yesterday, love it....and just registered today.

I got some quesitons and wanna see if you could give me some feedback...any suggestions/answers would be greatly appreciated...

I wanna get a Leica camera for so long...but, for the past years, I have been using Hasselblad 500cm classic with 80mm, and 150mm lens, Nikon F3HP (with 50mm lens), Nikon F100 with 85mm/1.4 lens.

about 1 1/2 years ago, I got a Hasselblad XPan II with 45mm lens, and I love it, and hooked...I found out that most of time (80+%), I only use this camera not others...

So, is it a good and wise idea to sell my equipments (except Xpan II) and jump into buying my very 1st Leica??? Will I be regret later??? If so, where is the best place to sell for good price I could get from those???

As for Leica, I am thinking of MP, but also heard good thing about M6 and M7, do you guys prefer one to the others??? and Why???

Also very confused about the models between 0.72, 0.58 and 0.85??? I read through all the brochures, but, maybe I am so beginner on this, I don't know which one to get???

I like to travel and travel a lots as well...I also like to take environment portrait, which lens do you recommand to get first, and second???

thanks so much for your time, and suggestion...I really appreciate 😉

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Before anything... see if you really like it. Try one, or get a smaller rangefinder camera. I see you've used the X-Pan but still...

As for Leicas, you need to decide whether to use a handheld meter or not. Many of the Leicas sold currently are meterless cameras, but all the Leicas currently in production are metered bodies. From the list you have, the M6, M7 and MP (which are metered)... it's tough to pick one. When I got my own, I went for price and picked up an M6TTL (intermediate model between the M6 and the M7) and I'm mighty happy with it, though at times I really wish I had AE like the M7 has. The MP is nothing but a rebadged and metered M3 (and the meter is a certain advantage, let me tell you).

As for magnification... this is the proportion by which the camera viewfinder represents the proportions of the subject viewed. If the subject appears the same size in the viewfinder and seen without it, then it's a 1:1 magnification. However, most cameras reduce the size of the subject... and there's a reason: so that you know what's going to be in the frame.

The 0.72 magnification is the most useful and easier to get. In this one, subjects appear at about three quarters of their size (seen by the naked eye). The 0.58, instead, reduces them to slightly over half their size, and 0.85 enlarges them pretty close to 1:1. The choices usually are:

Glass wearer who uses lots of wide angle lenses: 0.58 (you can see the entire frame)
Non-glass wearers or glass wearers who don't care: 0.72 (this magnification allows you to see the framelines of the 28mm lens, which is good enough when they almost match the viewfinder's field of vision)
Non-glass wearers or people who like using long lenses: 0.85 (notice this model is out of regular production now).

So, wen, what kind of glass do you like? Long, wide, standard?

BTW, I was going to find me a 0.58 (I wear bifocals), but when I saw I'd sacrifice the 135mm framelines... I decided to get the 0.72 instead.

Welcome to the forum and have fun shopping! 🙂

EDIT: PS. Good place to read and soak knowledge on Leicadom... STEVE GANDY'S website, universally known as Cameraquest.com

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Forgot to add... click on his "Classic Camera Profiles" and scroll until you find Leica M Rangefinder... although you can read wherever you please anyway. 🙂

 

[FrankS]

Welcome, Wen!

Leicas are great (I have some) but they aren't medium format cameras. That fact along with the low price used Hasselblads are fetching, lead me to decide not to sell a Hasselblad. (I have one.) Eventually digital backs for MF cameras are going to become affordable, and Hasselblads will become popular again.

 

[aizan]

my simple suggestion: get a .58x m7. first lens to get is 35/1.4 asph, then 28/2 asph. you might regret selling other cameras, but it's not the end of the world.

the hexar rf and zeiss ikon clubs are much easier to get in to.

 

[DerekF]

Hi wen, and welcome to RFF!

Like you, I wasn't into rangefinders before I got my first Leica, an MP. Prior to that, my equipment consisted of a Nikon FM3a and an Olympus OM-2.

It didn't take too long to get used to the Leica. Some of my first few photos were out of focus, but I think I've gotten the hang of focusing with the rangefinder patch (as opposed to the split-screen I'd been using with my SLRs).

The answer to your question is tough to answer, but the main question is whether you have the $$$ to afford an MP. If so, I'd say go for it! :angel: Everyone has their own preferences, and I'm sure others will point you toward any of the other equally-capable Leica Ms. I chose the MP because I wanted an M2/M3 with a built-in meter, so aside from the cost, it was a no-brainer. 😉 Besides, I'd been considering getting a Leica over the last few years, so when it came time to buy, the resulting credit card bill was not too big a shock... 😱

I got an MP with the 0.72x viewfinder magnification. Seemed to be the most versatile. If you need to go "longer" than that, you can always get the viewfinder magnification accessory to bump it up to 1.25x (I think).

If you can't afford an MP (used ones are still relatively expensive), then any other M should do just fine. For me, a built-in meter is a necessity, although you may decide you don't need it. In that case, a used M2 or M3 might be good options to get you acquainted with Leicadom. Personally, I would not have sold my existing equipment to buy a Leica... if you end up not liking your Leica, then you can always sell it or return it (if you bought it new). But the equipment you've sold off might be harder to get back and even if you do keep the Leica, you might come to regret selling off your equipment in the first place. Just a thought... (but take it with a grain of salt cuz I'm a big-time packrat!)

Regardless, good luck with your decision!

 

[zeos 386sx]

Buy the Leicas - keep everything else. You will end up with an outfit that is just about right !

 

[TEZillman]

Welcome Wen!

It sounds like you're at about the same place I was about a year ago. My first "serious" camera back in the 70s was a Voigtlander VF101 which was a small rangefinder manufactured by Rollei. Of course I had to "move up" to an SLR and used Olympus Om equipment for 20+ years. Like so many others on this site I had continual attacks of GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome - You'll see that term a lot on this site. It took me a while to figure out what it stood for) and had a closet full of equipment.

I sold off 90+ pieces of equipment to pay for about half of the cost of an M7 and three lenses. I did keep an SLR outfit for long lenses and macro shots, but I haven't put a roll of film through the SLR since I bought the Leica. I have used some of my other RFs when I've traveled on business when I didn't want to be concerned about the Leica sitting in a hotel room.

My guess is that you won't miss the other equipment if you sold it. About the only camera that I've sold that I miss is that old voigtlander.

I bought the M7 because I'm very used to using AE. The Leica meters are fairly simple center weighted meters and you do need to be aware of the potential for the meter to be fooled by bright or dark backgrounds, but for most shots the meter is quite acceptable. I prefer to set the aperture for the DOF I want and let the camera worry about the shutter speed so I can concentrate on composition and things like catching an expression on someone's face.

I purchased the M7 with the .72 viewfinder. I wear glasses and have a hard time seeing the 28mm framelines, but I don't have anything wider than a 35mm and I can see those framelines easily.

I've found that I use the 35mm about 75% of the time for travel photography, landscapes and candids. The 90mm is also great for candids if you want to back off, but still fill the frame with someone's face or for portrait shots. I probably use that 10-15% of the time and rarely use the 50mm.

I think the frameline magnifications have been explained well in earlier posts, so I won't go there. I purchased my equipment from KBCamera (They're one of the sponsors for this site) and I was very pleased with the service. Hope this helps. Good luck with your purchase.

Tom

 

[former member]

Decide if you are going to use wide-angle lenses or short telephoto lenses before deciding which viewfinder magnification to get. If the answer is "28mm", the 0.58x makes sense. If the answer is 90mm F2, the 0.85x is the one for you. If the 35mm and 90mm are one the list, with a 50mm being used a lot, get the 0.72x finder.

And of course if you want the highest magnification finder possible, want a classic, and don't need a meter, get the M3. I am required to say that. It's one of the Leica Forum Rules.

 

[vha]

Never sell a good camera is the rule, to a certain level, an when you have filled domke/lowepro bag no 2 and you still have leftovers, then think of it.
A bit more seriously, you can mostly use one camera at the time.
Hasselblad is a good camera, F100 is a good camera, F3 is a good camera, and they deserve to bee used, Xpan i don´t know, and wouldn´t know 😉, my bank account wouldn´t like that.



You mentioned you like to travel as well, sounds like Leica to me. Have tried to travel with a FM and a Tokina ATX Pro II 2,6-2,8 28-70mm zoom, nice lens but i don´t miss carrying it around all over Bolivia (where i was last time) , And hasselblad, F3 or F100 ain´t small either.

For me it was quite easy, i mostly use 28mm all the time, and maybe sometimes a 90mm, have maybe used it 6 times for the half year, would probably bring with me a 50mm at the next trip. So I recommend a used M6 and your most used lens angel.
For travel photography as i see it myself its primary a wide angle, maybe a 50mm or a 90mm. Depends. Have just used a 28mm on my M6 and i really like it, i use glasses, and have a 0.72 finder, works fine, but you cant see the whole frameline at once, just like the finder of an FM, but you get used to it, so no problem.
Of corse a 0.58 would be nice, but then i couldn´t afford to travel, and my insurance would not like it. About the new glass from Leica i cant say much, have a 3 gen. Elmarit M and it works for me, been using a 28mm Biogon for Contax G before that, nice lens as well and probably more in the league of the newest glass.
But again, for my part who has been travelling for half a year, then going back for saving more money and now stays away for one year, working voluntarily without any income, i could not have done this if I bought new equipment.
But if you have the money for it, and a travel insurance that covers you, go for it.
But then again, you might be able to travel some moths longer if you buy 2nd hand.

vha.

 

[richard_l]

.....I chose the MP because I wanted an M2/M3 with a built-in meter, so aside from the cost, it was a no-brainer.....

An almost mint M2 or M3 can be had for $1000. A new MP costs $3295 at B&H. That makes $2295 for the meter! 😱 A valiant effort, Derek, but I don't think we can justify Leicalust. 😀

 

[peter_n]

Welcome to the forum wen! 🙂 I would say get a 0.72 mag M6 or M7 because it makes a good versatile first cam. It will do wides as well as moderate teles. You only need the 0.58 or 0.85 if you are really mostly using one or the other end of the range. I've travelled a fair amount with my M6TTL and find the 35/50/90 combo covers just about most situations and you really need a 0.72 mag to cover that range.

Yeah - sell everything and get the Leica - you won't regret it! 🙂

 

[phototone]

Whatever you sell, there will be a time when you will wish you hadn't sold it. Universal axiom.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

I had a small collection of Japanese rangefinders and sold it for my Leicas. Not that it made a significant impact but I would have stopped using them anyway, so nothing was lost.

Sell the stuff you positively don't use... but not to buy Leicas.

 

[Fred]

Welcome Wen.

If you get the chance, try a Leica and run a film through it, maybe a used one to 'borrow' would give you the right idea.

As for the medium format stuff, I'd keep it, I've still got an old Bronica that doesn't get used that often (since I got an RF) but produces much smoother variations in tone that the 35mm cannot. I don't miss lugging it around though. Keep the F100 and F3 if possible, they can be used with the longer lenses. It's silly how much a dealer will offer you for the kit in part exchange for some fine SLR machinery.

Although you want to go for a Leica, it may well be worth looking the the Voigtlander R2/3/a cameras with some good glass, it's certainly worth doing this before shedding any other kit.

The M7 has the aperture priority auto and is really good for quick candid shots in most cases if you use slide film. Other M cameras will suffice with negative film as the exposure lattitude available is normally good enough to get a decent print. I use the M7 on auto for speed, hyperfocusing using the desired aperture. Manual is very handy for total control. Some don't like the M7 or the M6TTL as the shutter dial goes in the oposite direction to the other M cameras, the dial on the M7 / M6TTl is bigger and is (for me anyway) easier to operate with the camera at eye level.

Leicas are not cheap so if you decide to go for one it's worth being sure what you want. I certainly did not regret becomming a member of the 'Club' I just need to improve my photography.

 

[DerekF]

An almost mint M2 or M3 can be had for $1000. A new MP costs $3295 at B&H. That makes $2295 for the meter! 😱 A valiant effort, Derek, but I don't think we can justify Leicalust. 😀

Well I can try, can't I?? :angel:

 

[Fred]

The M2 and M3 are the 'classic' Leca M cameras, the fact is that they are getting a tad old and may require a CLA. A good CLAd M2/3 should be as good as a new one as they were over engineered anyway. The built in meter is very useful on new Leicas and the viewfinders are improved over the M4/6. Try before you buy if possible.

Have fun deciding, you'll need to factor in some glass into the budget. For starters the CV stuff is good and a lot cheaper than Leica glass, some FSU lenses are also worth a look (others on the forum can comment better on these). Previous generation (non asph) Leica glass is still extremely good also. Generally I use 35, 50 and 90 for my normal kit.

 

[wen]

🙂 thank you thank you and thank you for all...so much information, wow, you guys are so wonderful, I am so touched 😉

I am so beginner, before you guys point out, I didn't know losts Leica Models need handheld meter to work with, and have no idea on wide, standard, telephoto lens make difference with viewfinder magnification 😱 I think I should go with metered model, a build in meter would be wonderful...

...and with your explaination on magnification, I have an idea now...wow, you guys are super...so speechless now 🙂 I have read all messages back and forth 3 times, looks like I like wide and standard lens, I should go for 0.72 or 0.58 (I wear contact lens, and sometimes, glasses) ?

Tom mentioned about GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome), sounds very scary 😀 I could picture me when I am going to get my first Lecia, and the life after that now...

I have a hard time deciding which model to go for now...

 

[Photar]

I would keep the 'blad. A medium format SLR and a Leica M is a perfect combination from my point of view. I use medium format (6x7) for landscape and nature and the M Leica for everything else.

I also would recommend the MP. The MP unifies M6 convenience with M2/M3 style and smoothness. People tend to compare new MP prices with used M2 and M3 prices. Not very fair, in my opinion. I got my MP in mint conditions for 50% of its current retail price (from eB*y so it's not magic).

If you travel a lot I would recommend the Tri-Elmar. I love this lens. Yesterday I shot the London Triathlon with the MP and the Tri-Elmar - it's so much fun!

 

[GeneW]

Another option would be to buy a new Bessa R2a & 35mm Ultron instead. It's lika Leica, including AE metering, but costs less to try out. You could shoot one for a year or so and if you're still wanting a Leica after that time, go for it, and keep the Bessa as a second body.

Gene