ray*j*gun
Veteran
I have 3 Barnack Leicas and the III with a collapsible is tiny! And, with patience you will find a nice one in your price range. The one in our classifieds is nice (not mine).
Good Luck.
Ray
Good Luck.
Ray
Last edited:
akalai
Well-known
For a frame finder with a difference you could try the Ikodot.
Ikodot frame finder website;
http://www.ikodot.com/
Make sure you have a good read of the website ...these are very well made items and once you start to use them very intuitive. I also think they would be perfect for use with a Leica If Red Dial or if you can find one (and afford it) a Leica Ig which has slow speeds.
Here is an example of a Leica If, 50mm Elmar and 50mm Leica SBOOI view finder;
(Image is from http://leica.boom.ru/Leica_IF-.JPG)
Ikodot frame finder website;
http://www.ikodot.com/
Make sure you have a good read of the website ...these are very well made items and once you start to use them very intuitive. I also think they would be perfect for use with a Leica If Red Dial or if you can find one (and afford it) a Leica Ig which has slow speeds.
Here is an example of a Leica If, 50mm Elmar and 50mm Leica SBOOI view finder;
(Image is from http://leica.boom.ru/Leica_IF-.JPG)
FrankS
Registered User
If you don't need interchangeable lenses and can do with a 40mm, the Rollei 35 models are small, sturdy, mechanical, and have a built in meter as a bonus.
FPjohn
Well-known
Elegant
Elegant
The Ikodot is elegant. I find it difficult to resist. Perhaps i will not.
yours
FPJ
Elegant
For a frame finder with a difference you could try the Ikodot.
Ikodot frame finder website;
http://www.ikodot.com/
Make sure you have a good read of the website ...these are very well made items and once you start to use them very intuitive. I also think they would be perfect for use with a Leica If Red Dial or if you can find one (and afford it) a Leica Ig which has slow speeds.
Here is an example of a Leica If, 50mm Elmar and 50mm Leica SBOOI view finder;
(Image is from http://leica.boom.ru/Leica_IF-.JPG)
The Ikodot is elegant. I find it difficult to resist. Perhaps i will not.
yours
FPJ
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I've had the same desire for a pocketable camera. I used to carry a Retina Ia; I have a Leica If now. The Leica is the way to go if you can swing it - it's much lighter than a Retina.
bmattock
Veteran
There are no Leicas out there which are that reasonable in price, with the exception of the less-collectible I and II model screw-mount Leicas, which do not have speeds down to 1 second (that would make them III models). The addition of a collapsible lens would probably push you over your price point in any case.
Quiet can be achieved by use of a leaf shutter instead of a focal plane shutter. Additionally, leaf shutters generally allow flash sync at any speed. Few go to 1/1000 of a second, though, generally topping out at 1/500.
You could easily obtain a Zorki or a FED LTM camera with collapsible lens for the price point you're looking for. Quality tends to vary, so budget a CLA at the minimum.
With respect to the Bessa T, the Bessa L is smaller yet (no rangefinder). Same trouble with collapsible lens, though, I presume.
I would second ZeissFan's recommendation regarding the Kodak Retina series, as well as the excellent (one of my personal favorites) the Agfa Karat IV:
http://www.growlery.com/agfa_karat_iv/
The Karat IV came with one of a variety of lenses, I am very fond of the f/2 Solagon. The lens doesn't collapse as much as the entire front of the camera does.
Minus the rangefinder, I like the size, weight, construction quality, lens, and extreme quietness of the Zeiss Ikon Contina. Available with 45mm 3.5 or 2.8 lenses, avoid the 'Pantar' replaceable front element versions.
I suppose I should not say this, but just FYI, I have found in my search for cameras similar to what you are describing, once one gets into the aspect of 'small' and 'folding', one must also consider 120 rollfilm folders in 6x4.5 or 6x6 - some of them were quite small, hardly bigger than some folding 35mms. And the difference in quality based on negative size...oh my.
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
How about something like this:
FED ZARYA
Not an exact match to your specs; shutter speeds aren't as you mentioned but not too pricey. OK seller as well.
Or, another idea, you might look for a FED or Zorki 1 in rough shape and strip off the RF/VF stuff on the top deck, leaving the shutter release,wind on, rewind, and speed selector. Add a cold shoe to hold your VF and you'd be set.
There are some good, inexpensive FSU techs that might be able to make something like this for you. Oleg at OK Vintage comes to mind and Eddy Smolov in the states as well.
I think some one here at RFF did this and posted about it in the FSU forum a while ago.
Rob
FED ZARYA
Not an exact match to your specs; shutter speeds aren't as you mentioned but not too pricey. OK seller as well.
Or, another idea, you might look for a FED or Zorki 1 in rough shape and strip off the RF/VF stuff on the top deck, leaving the shutter release,wind on, rewind, and speed selector. Add a cold shoe to hold your VF and you'd be set.
There are some good, inexpensive FSU techs that might be able to make something like this for you. Oleg at OK Vintage comes to mind and Eddy Smolov in the states as well.
I think some one here at RFF did this and posted about it in the FSU forum a while ago.
Rob
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Retina IIa or later.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
mh2000
Well-known
I have both and don't thing the weight difference is that big and the dimensions are just different. The Retina has a great 50 f2 lens vs. a 50 f3.5, and that is a pretty big difference in aperture... if you put even a collapsable 50/2 on the Leica it will bigger and heavier than the Retina IIa.
You will be hard pressed to get a nice Leica and lens for you price range, but the Retina will be well under $100 for a superb example.
I would also encourage you to look into the jewel-like Rollei 35's... they are very nice and the lenses are superb.
>>The Leica is the way to go if you can swing it - it's much lighter than a Retina.
You will be hard pressed to get a nice Leica and lens for you price range, but the Retina will be well under $100 for a superb example.
I would also encourage you to look into the jewel-like Rollei 35's... they are very nice and the lenses are superb.
>>The Leica is the way to go if you can swing it - it's much lighter than a Retina.
mh2000
Well-known
PS I know they aren't what you are directly asking about, but for a pocket take *everywhere* camare I think the only two real choices are the Minox 35's and Olypus XA. Granted they are aperture priority and manually focused 35mm FL, but they are ultra light weight and about the size of a pack of cigarettes. I am 50mm guy myself, but I use both of these cameras when I want something in my pocket (you can't really shove any of the others listed in the thread into a snug jeans pocket, but you can these). If you are flexible enough to accept full program (but with spotmetering) you can also add the Olympus stylus...
You can kina-sorta get a normal view from these if you shoot for a final crop (better than single focal length on a half frame IMO).
I have all these cameras and enjoy shooting...
You can kina-sorta get a normal view from these if you shoot for a final crop (better than single focal length on a half frame IMO).
I have all these cameras and enjoy shooting...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Leica IIIa with f/3.5 Elmar: 550g, 133mm x 67mm x 45mm, including lens cap but not strap lugs (141mm including strap lugs)
Retina IIa with f/2: 575g, 122 x 82 x 44mm between flats i.e. 11mm (or 19mm) shorter, a surprising 15mm higher, effectively identical in thickness. The extra 25g (about 0.9 oz.) seems a small price for an f/2 lens instead of f/3.5, combined range/viewfinder, no need to cut long film leaders, lever wind instead of knob, single-dial shutter speed setting, flash synch at all speeds, standard cable release fitting and $100 saved.
Leica advantages: 1/1000 (probable 1/650) top speed instead of 1/500 (probable 1/400), eyesight adjustment on rangefinder.
Cheers,
Roger
mh2000
Well-known
I have both the Leica IIIc and Retina IIa... I like them both, but actually grab the Retina IIa more often. Being able to shoot "normal" film is more important than you may think... I've twice had to buy a $8 pair of scissors w/film just to load up in an emergency (sometimes you go out without enough film... shoot more than you expect...). The lever wind is also nice for shooting... VF's are kind of similar, I can use either, but the Retina is probably better. I'm guessing a LTM collapsible Summicron would be better than the Xenon, especially wide open but I don't own one... stopped down the Xenon probably at least matches the older Elmars at any aperture. I really like the look from my CV Color-Skopar 50/2.5, but the Leica is certainly not a pocket camera with that attached.
You have to like shooting old cameras to shoot either IMO... and they each have their own individual charm... I think most RF shooters would like to own a Barnack style camera, even if they only shoot it every so often.
The $25 Industar-22 (Russian coated Elmar clone) is a very good lens for use on a LTM.
You have to like shooting old cameras to shoot either IMO... and they each have their own individual charm... I think most RF shooters would like to own a Barnack style camera, even if they only shoot it every so often.
The $25 Industar-22 (Russian coated Elmar clone) is a very good lens for use on a LTM.
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
I'm very surprised by how similar the weights are! I have both Retina Ia and IIa and a Leica If, and the in-hand perception is that the Retinas are much, much heavier than the numbers would indicate.
Retinas are little gems! My Ia was a carry every day briefcase camera for almost ten years.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Wow! There is something like information over-load, you know!!!
Many, many thanks to one and all for your advice and comments, much appreciated. I will try to summarise...
To Bill Mattock,
Any suggestions on a small medium format folder... you are very right about the difference between 35mm and MF. One very big difference is that MF will allow you to torture the film more without it falling apart.
To everyone else,
In addition to not wanting a 'half-frame', I want no batteries involved except for a possible meter. But then I do not need a meter either. No auto-exposure, no automation... so that is why the Leica LTM camera's appeal to me.
Also I am not really looking for a camera that will fit in a pocket as such, but more a camera that is a complete unit without bits and pieces to snag or fall off. Not sure the made sense, but look at the Voigtländer Vitessa -
photo courtesy of www.retrography.com
A sleek unit that will slip in and out of a coat pocket or briefcase quickly and easily. Even a Leica LTM with one of Luigi's wonderful cases fit that description -
photo courtesy of www.leicatime.com
Again thanks to everyone who contributed,
Many, many thanks to one and all for your advice and comments, much appreciated. I will try to summarise...
To Bill Mattock,
Any suggestions on a small medium format folder... you are very right about the difference between 35mm and MF. One very big difference is that MF will allow you to torture the film more without it falling apart.
To everyone else,
In addition to not wanting a 'half-frame', I want no batteries involved except for a possible meter. But then I do not need a meter either. No auto-exposure, no automation... so that is why the Leica LTM camera's appeal to me.
Also I am not really looking for a camera that will fit in a pocket as such, but more a camera that is a complete unit without bits and pieces to snag or fall off. Not sure the made sense, but look at the Voigtländer Vitessa -
photo courtesy of www.retrography.com
A sleek unit that will slip in and out of a coat pocket or briefcase quickly and easily. Even a Leica LTM with one of Luigi's wonderful cases fit that description -
photo courtesy of www.leicatime.com
Again thanks to everyone who contributed,
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
Lynn, please check your email...
bmattock
Veteran
Modern? I'd consider a Fuji GS645, a folding 6x4.5 camera. One has to be careful to get a good one, I'm told some are prone to bellows problems from the factory, but once repaired, no problems. The lens is very well regarded.
Older - any number of folding MF cameras could do the job, a lot depends on what you want in one. RF? Or are you willing to guestimate distances and set the distance on the lens manually? If the former, a Zeiss Super Ikonta, I would think, or the Soviet equivalent. If the latter, any number of excellent folders would suffice. Agfa, Zeiss, Voigtlander, and so on. The Perkeo is nice, as is a basic Nettar. About as simple as they come, but of course, one must knob wind using red window, cock the shutter, and set focus distance before framing and taking the photo.
elshaneo
Panographer
The Leica IIIf RD ST would be one of the best compact ones, I have two of them and I'm currently selling one of them:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270314732012
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=270314732012
bean_counter
Well-known
I use a IIIf with an Elmar 50/3.5; with an SBOOI finder if the pocket is big enough.
Stopped down w/400 speed film, it's essentially a P&S in daylight. SBOOI is a GREAT finder.
Stopped down w/400 speed film, it's essentially a P&S in daylight. SBOOI is a GREAT finder.
Dralowid
Michael
One prob with the Leica I and standard that you may not be aware of. The original viewfinder prevents the biggest of the CV viewfinders (21 and wider, duuno about others) fitting the accesory shoe without a spacer to raise it up...if you are thinking of going down this route you need a later I with two shoes.
Michael
Michael
Vince Lupo
Whatever
How about a Blackberry.....