Wartime IIIc, red curtain, stepper rewind

[LeicaTom]

Just letting anyone know that I bit the bullet and bought that Red Curtain
3C(sic) in Britain for GBP265. From my reckoning it is at most one of only about 900 IIIc's with red curtains and the early non-return spring winding lock, and also about the 50th red curtain Leica made. That does equate to about AU$600 but I reckon it's worth it for the price.

Congrats on such an early camera Charles!

I have yet to get the #3613xx IIIC NL inspected for repair/CLA, I`m hoping it`s not missing anything really rare.....I know the lower light shield is gone and the shutter curtains have been cut out, so a butcher was in this one too 🙁

Tom

 

[Charles Woodhouse]

Hi Tom, sorry not to reply to your email, but my sister was staying a few days,and dragged me away from the computer.
When you say the bottom light baffle is missing from your NL IIIc, are you sure? These early IIIc's only had the flat back baffle which surrounded the film gate,and two side baffles, a curved one on the left as you look into the camera,and a W section one on the right. At the bottom the slow speed escapement was covered by a black box like the III,IIIa and IIIb series, but there was a stainless steel disconnect rod sliding on top of the black box just below the lens mount to give the 1/10,1/15 and 1/20 speeds.
By about 385000 this sliding rod had been painted black and some time after that Leitz introduced the flat bottom baffle that completely covered the slow speed escapement,and did away with the black box.

 

[LeicaTom]

Hi Tom, sorry not to reply to your email, but my sister was staying a few days,and dragged me away from the computer.
When you say the bottom light baffle is missing from your NL IIIc, are you sure? These early IIIc's only had the flat back baffle which surrounded the film gate,and two side baffles, a curved one on the left as you look into the camera,and a W section one on the right. At the bottom the slow speed escapement was covered by a black box like the III,IIIa and IIIb series, but there was a stainless steel disconnect rod sliding on top of the black box just below the lens mount to give the 1/10,1/15 and 1/20 speeds.
By about 385000 this sliding rod had been painted black and some time after that Leitz introduced the flat bottom baffle that completely covered the slow speed escapement,and did away with the black box.

Charles,

I hope everything`s ok down there with you and the family, let me know if your received the email with all the photos of my #3613xx IIIC NL and what do you think about it and the missing parts, get back to me when you can, no rush!

Tom

 

[tennis-joe]

I love it as it sounds like a spy novel almost.
You said the red curtain was cut out, so does this lower the value and does it now have a red curtain?
Joe

 

[LeicaTom]

I love it as it sounds like a spy novel almost.
You said the red curtain was cut out, so does this lower the value and does it now have a red curtain?
Joe

Ohh #3613xx NL had "Black" curtains, which is maybe the ONLY time in Leica history when the`re RARE, see it`s one of the very FIRST Leica IIIC`s ever made and is documented to have Black curtains, despite the bruised and battered condition of the camera, it`s quite possibly one of the ONLY surviving Leica NL`s of this early 1940 production series and as for value I`d put it around $1,200/$1,500 as soon as it`s restored

BUT, I` be decided it`s NOT for sale 😉

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/10...979QQitemZ350087238979QQtimeoutZ1218664133171

I don`t even have to tell you this is the REAL DEAL, with original 1945 dated ownership transfer paperwork from US Army Occupying Forces, the one RF window ring is missing and you can`t tell if the lens is a LE engraved lens (but it seems to be in the right serial number range) overall a very nice camera, but that paperwork I think makes it even more valuable

Sadly the rarest bit`s of the kit that infantryman captured IS`NT with the auction, notice if you read the paperwork carefully there was (3) original LTM Carl Zeiss Sonnar lenses with the camera, 50/85 and 135mm versions
(these lenses would be worth almost as much as the camera if they were with it) - too bad they were lost with time, but that document is very interesting reading and adds to the value of the camera, I perdict at least $2,500 if not more......at the end of this auction

I wish my Grey IIIC K still had it`s original US Army ownership transfer paperwork from 1945, it was part of a kit that a member of 9th Armored Division brought back from Germany in 1945

Tom

That Skinner Auction ended with this Leica IIIC "Red Curtain" LE selling for only $1,600!!!!!

WOW Someone out there, got an amazing deal....I bet you money we`ll see this one come out again (in 6 months or a year from now) with some greedly dealer trying to get $3,000 out of it, the market`s really down on these WW2 cameras, heck the paperwork alone on this gave it a $500 premium on what it was worth, it just sold very low, a great deal for a 100% verified Luftwaffen camera

Tom

 

[LeicaTom]

That Skinner Auction Luftwaffen Eigentum Red Curtain IIIC is for sale AGAIN on evilbay

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-LUFTWAFFEN-EIGENTUM-LEICA-IIIC-RANGEFINDER-CAMERA_W0QQitemZ250299399442QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250299399442&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This camera is the REAL DEAL though the Red Curtain has some nasty age spots that are non fixable, the camera does has that unique 1945 dated US Army "capture" paperwork

Let`s see if the buyer will make a profit on this one as he paid $1,600 plus an auction premium......I doubt that this will go much over that with the rough curtains, but then again Red Curtains are rarely usable and are only glorified paperweights that all the WW2 German Military collectors look and pay crazy prices for when they have the Luftwaffe engravings on them......... 😉

Tom

 

[mynikonf2]

Vulcanite Color

Vulcanite Color

Tom,
The vulcanite color on this camera is an exact match to my 391 camera:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-LUFTWAFFEN...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom,
The vulcanite color on this camera is an exact match to my 391 camera:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-LUFTWAFFEN-EIGENTUM-LEICA-IIIC-RANGEFINDER-CAMERA_W0QQitemZ250299399442QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250299399442&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

I thought it was Grey? This camera sold had black vulcanite (1941) pattern *early* style vulcanite, which was changed out in 1942 for a different pattern.

Your camera should have the same color grey vulcanite as a Grey IIC K, there were some left-over shells, laying around, so the factory used what they could find to out cameras together for the US Army......

Tom

PS: Well, that seller made an extra $400 profit on that camera, let`s see if it`s on evilbay next week for $2.500!!!! 😉

 

[mynikonf2]

Different monitor

Different monitor

You're right, now that I'm home these photos do look black. On the monitor at the office the skin looks gray. Oh well, sorry bout that.

 

[LeicaTom]

You're right, now that I'm home these photos do look black. On the monitor at the office the skin looks gray. Oh well, sorry bout that.

Yes, I think that there was a very small batch of Leica IIIB`s made in 1943 that had Grey spray painted vulcanite, with "Luftwaffen Eigentum" stamped on the back in black paint, just why they did this I don`t know?

Leitz NEVER made Grey vulcanite as some people have sometimes suggested or described a camera as having, it was always black vulcanie sprayed over, as was on ALL the Leica IIIC and IIIC K Grey cameras.

Tom

 

[photovdz]

got a problem

my technician rebuild one of my IIcRC from bit of another one... ok it works but...
the top plate and the chassis are mixed ...
and I'm left with a complete but in pieces IIIcRC without curtains...

so should I ... solve the problem of the top plate (the correct one has a flash synch socket)
and rebuild the second one with new curtains...

anyone got nice new red curtains... ?

Stephan

 

[LeicaTom]

got a problem

my technician rebuild one of my IIcRC from bit of another one... ok it works but...
the top plate and the chassis are mixed ...
and I'm left with a complete but in pieces IIIcRC without curtains...

so should I ... solve the problem of the top plate (the correct one has a flash synch socket)
and rebuild the second one with new curtains...

anyone got nice new red curtains... ?

Stephan

By IIICRC I figure you mean "Red Curtain" I have never seen it reffered to that way before LOL!!!!!

There were some Russian and Polish "fakers" in the late 1980`s who were faking Red Curtains and selling them into the German Leica collectors market.

I did`nt know where they were getting their material????......no one currently carries that Eastman Kodak Parachute Red Fabric anymore, you could find someone with normal red fabric I`m sure, but the original 1940/41 fabric has been gone for good for over 50 years!!!

I say put normal black curtains in it, it`s a user anyway while it`s made up of spare parts and it`s no longer of any collectible value.

Tom

 

[john neal]

Stephan,

You can get red curtain material from Microtools, but it is a modern fabric with a much more pronounced weave than the old silk used by Leica. I'm presently trying to locate an alternate source for a project of my own. I'll let you know if I hear anything.

If you need black material, I would recommend Jon Goodman, he has some superb synthetic silk, coated one side, that is the thinnest currently available.

 

[LeicaTom]

Another Luftwaffen Red Curtain IIIC at auction.....

Another Luftwaffen Red Curtain IIIC at auction.....

Currently at evilbay.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-IIIc-Red-...ryZ15234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Very uncommon 1940 issued "Red Curtain" Luftwaffen Eigentum (Air Force Issued) IIIC which is 98% original, with a very pretty shutter curtain and some combat "usage" patina.

Camera has the FL no. 38079 (Luftwaffen Supply Contract Number) engraved on the top plate but doesn`t have the Luftwaffen Eigentum writing engraved on the upper rear portion of the camera, only a small batch of cameras were ever made this way and there`s no explanation as to why the property engravings were`nt done, but this camera is the real deal.

Only the slow speed dial was changed out at a later date (to a post 1942 version) other than that the camera is a very nice original survivior.

Tom

 

[Vince Lupo]

For anyone who's interested, that wartime IIIc Luftwaffe camera is mine, and if you need more info or closeup photos of that area where the engraving may or may not have been, please e-mail me and I'll send them to you.