Wartime/Peacetime

[dave lackey]

It just occurred to me this morning that I have never seen recreation photos of the Vietnam War (or WWII for that matter) showing actual wartime photos compated to contemporary photos made at the same location, separated only by time...

I would think it would show the folly of humankind.

Anyone have any links?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

I haven't got the original photos for a complete comparison unfortunately. Some of them are in Mark Bando's book "Breakout at Normandy - the 2nd Armored Division in the Land of the Dead"

(Poor) recreation of a photo made by Robert Capa during Operation Cobra in July/August 1944 in Normandy.
The halftrack is on the exact spot at least. The men were 41st Armored Infantry of the 2nd Armored Division.

M5 Light Tank crew refilling their flasks at St.Denis-le-Gast. The water pump in the original photo has long been replaced by a simple tap.
St. Denis was at one of three points where the division fought a fierce night battle. Retreating German armored columns smashed into and flowed round the American defences.

 

[newspaperguy]

Nicely done.
They do capture the feeling,and are period correct
except for one detail...
there were no camouflage fatigues issued to U.S.
troops in WWII (or in Korea).

 

[Mr_Flibble]

there were no camouflage fatigues issued to U.S.
troops in WWII.

really, Capa must've used a really weird filter in Normandy then 😉

Elements of the 2nd Armored Division and the 30th Infantry Division were issued Camouflage HBT clothing (not the same as the USMC pattern) to wear over their wool uniforms just before the start of Operation Cobra (the Breakout of the Normandy Beaches), as part of a test by the Corps of Engineers. The uniforms disappear again at the end of August/ early September when the men again got fresh uniforms. 😉

 

[dave lackey]

St.Denis-le-Gast...

Was there an original photo to compare the recent one with?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

I'll see if I can dig them out later today. I currently don't have my copy Bando's book at home though 🙁

 

[oftheherd]

really, Capa must've used a really weird filter in Normandy then 😉

Soldiers from the 41st Armored Infantry Regiment watching over one of their wounded.

Elements of the 2nd Armored Division and the 30th Infantry Division were issued Camouflage HBT clothing (not the same as the USMC pattern) to wear over their wool uniforms just before the start of Operation Cobra (the Breakout of the Normandy Beaches), as part of a test by the Corps of Engineers. The uniforms disappear again at the end of August/ early September when the men again got fresh uniforms. 😉

Interesting, thanks. I knew the Marines had some in the pacific theater, but didn't recall ever reading about them in Europe.

 

[Paul T.]

I can't find the St. Denis one, but I've scavenged this one from "Slightly out of Focus"

However nice or useful they are, these are Robert Capa and Magnum's copyright shots.

SInce when has it been ok to use other photographers' shot on rff without permission?

 

[Paul T.]

Ever heard of fair use?

Yes. This ain't it.

THis is not a review of the photos in question. Even if it were, it's doubtful you would be able to include them. Ever wondered why there are no Capa photos in Alex Kershaw's book, even when they are discussed in detail within the text?


.

 

[newspaperguy]

My apologies to Mr_Flibble!

I've never seen that before.

But I'll stand behind the Korea comment,

based on first hand observations. 😉

(1951 & 1953)

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Paul T is right, but it is kind of hard to show the Then and Now images this way 😉
Offending images deleted

[edit]Ah, apparently I had only needed to add this source: "National Archives USA".
These particular images Capa shot of the 2nd Armored men in Camouflage uniforms can be found online "free of rights" in the French Normandy Archives http://www.archivesnormandie39-45.org/


Mr Beckrich, no apologies required sir.
And thank you for your service, I have met a few Dutch veterans who served under the Indianhead Division in Korea.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

You can always use Google to find a large assortment of Rober Capa photo's on the Web.

http://images.google.com/images?um=...bert+capa+wartime+photos&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=21

 

[Chris101]

Ever heard of fair use?

Yes. This ain't it.

THis is not a review of the photos in question. Even if it were, it's doubtful you would be able to include them. Ever wondered why there are no Capa photos in Alex Kershaw's book, even when they are discussed in detail within the text?

Without inside knowledge we can't speak to Kershaw's lack of Capa's photographs. But the concept of Fair Use is not limited to critical discussion of the photographs mentioned. There is also an educational provision. The concept of Fair Use is vague, and purposely so. This requires any litigation to be determined by the actual facts in the particular case.

This was done purposely, so as to encourage educational use of copyrighted images and other materials. And this is certainly one of those cases.

ps, if we were a recognized educational institution, the case for Fair Use would be stronger. I'm just saying.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Getting sligthly back on topic

Cloth Hall, Ypres, World War 1, 1917 I believe

Early 2008

Konica Auto S2

 

[filmtwit]

There's actually a publication that does exactly what you're talking about. After the Battle: Then and Now
http://www.afterthebattle.com/

 

[dave lackey]

Getting sligthly back on topic

Cloth Hall, Ypres, World War 1, 1917 I believe

Early 2008

Konica Auto S2

Rick, Perfect!

The reason I posted this thread was for purely educational purposes for my own sake and if anyone else is interested...then great. Since I have been out of work the last 18 months and I am no longer teaching at university, I do a lot of research on many topics to keep my mind active.

It struck me the other day when I came across something about travel to Vietnam, of all places, that those travel pictures could show the same scenes today that were all too familiar during the war.

thanks again for helping out...🙂