Was HCB Really "All That"???

again, coming from money is the biggest nonsequitor possible. If it were the case every lawyer and doctor that bought their status leica to go with all thier other status objects would by that logic be an amazing photographer by proxy of the fact that they have the time to use it. Every message board dealing with rangefinders and leicas would be overflowing with talent from all the rich people with cameras... There couldnt be a more pedestrian way to look at life if you tried. Money buys you time, money does not buy talent and time does not sharpen talent. You are either born with it or you are not. The end.

Ive worked with both very wealthy artists and very very poor artists and functionally, the only difference between both groups was who was buying dinner for whom and not much more.

Its a shame that being a rich, privelaged photographer in addition to creating talent doesnt also stop bullets, Sean Flynn would still be alive today.
 
WoolenMammoth said:
again, coming from money is the biggest nonsequitor possible. If it were the case every lawyer and doctor that bought their status leica to go with all thier other status objects would by that logic be an amazing photographer by proxy of the fact that they have the time to use it. Every message board dealing with rangefinders and leicas would be overflowing with talent from all the rich people with cameras... There couldnt be a more pedestrian way to look at life if you tried. Money buys you time, money does not buy talent and time does not sharpen talent. You are either born with it or you are not. The end.

Ive worked with both very wealthy artists and very very poor artists and functionally, the only difference between both groups was who was buying dinner for whom and not much more.

Its a shame that being a rich, privelaged photographer in addition to creating talent doesnt also stop bullets, Sean Flynn would still be alive today.
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Having money opens doors for an artist that remain slammed tighly shut to an artist who hasn't got money. I've seen it many, many times here in the midwest and even more so in Santa Fe when I lived there., though maybe it is different in New York City. Almost all of the artists in Santa Fe had family wealth behind them, and it certainly didn't make them better artists than people who didn't have that wealth, but it sure made it easier for them to get their work into galleries, etc. People who control the art world simply do not respect the poor, and often don't even see them as people. Not that such attitudes are exclusive to wealthy people in the art world...they'e found among the powerful everywhere.
 
HCB kinda leaves me cold. W. Eugene Smith, Bill Pierce, Peter Stackpole and Ralph Gibson are much more interesting to me.
 
What is this a popularity contest? I like this one or the other one better than Cartier-Bresson, nyah nyah. Personal taste aside, Cartier-Bresson was a Monster, one of the Big Ones, as influential as Picasso or Matisse or Duchamp. Contemporary photojounalism would not be the same without him, contemporary photography book design would not be the same without him. Contemporary THINKING about photography would not be the same without him. As far as my personal taste is concerned, which is as irrelevant as anyone else's Cartier-Bresson's images are full of life, they cut to the chase, get at the essence, in a way that Smith and especially Salgado don't. To those who argue that his images are cold or distant, take a look at the photographs from India or China. His photographs of suffering, of life and death, of the human condition resonate with truth without the sentimentality sometimes found in Smith and often in Salgado. But who cares? That's my taste, which you can argue with all you like. You can't argue with his place in history or the influence he has had on generations of photographers. Acknowledge his place and let him R.I.P.
 
Now Nick you know good & well if HCB carried a Yashica instead if a Leica you would be all over the Yashica forum praising the man!:D

Different strokes for different folks. I get cranked by HCB. While he is not my favorite, his work enspires me. Annie L. rocks IMO. She knows how to take a portrait. Capa, R. Gibson, for instance doesn't appeal to me, but thats not to say they aren't great photographers. They certainly are. Many called Bill Egglestons work "just snapshots" but to me that shot of the tricycle is a work of art. I do agree with you on Zappa. Never been a big fan. More into Alice Cooper myself. Oh yea Patti Smith is a hellova good rocker & outstanding photographer too.
http://www.lensculture.com/webloglc/mt_files/archives/2008/03/patti-smith-polaroids.html
 
furcafe said:
No, he definitely cropped occasionally, e.g., the famous shot of the man leaping over a puddle behind Gare Saint-Lazare. I think 1 RFF member was using a shot of the original negative as his/her icon.
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I'm certainly surprised, but it seems he only had an intrusive fence cropped from the left.

Its ironic that the definitive "decisive moment" photo is cropped!
 
mfunnell said:
In HCB's case: some of his stuff I like a lot, some less so and some I probably wouldn't have looked at twice if not for the name.
...Mike
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Congratulations. Your are intellectually honest, and understand RF-style photography. Welcome to the club.
 
Nick,

I have an honest question - can you define what "RF-style" photography is? Do you mean if one is "intellectually honest" and carries a rangefinder camera, one somehow qualifies for some kind of club membership? I'm just not understanding what club we're talking about here. I shoot with all sorts of cameras (actually rangefinders are my least favorite, I just enjoy this forum) but don't see how either of those facts somehow make my opinion any more valid or in line with some group. It seems obvious to me from this thread that there is no main stream opinion here on this site at all, although we do seem to talk about Cartier Bresson a lot :)
 
le vrai rdu said:
on peut épiloguer longtemps sur HBC, le fait est simple, il avait l'oeil , c'est suffisant
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what made Wayne Gretzky one of the greatest hockey players ever was not his ability to know where the puck was; but where it was going to be. I think HCB was like that. He didn't just "avait l'oeil" he knew what was going to unfold in front of him and he was set up for it when it happened. C'est significatif.
 
varjag said:
Dunno about Citizen Kane, but that Battleship Potemkin thing was really cheesy. I mean, that stroller-down-the-steps thing is really overdone, cliche and not as nice as in The Untouchables anyway.
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The scene in The Untouchables (1987) is a homage to The Battleship Potemkin (1925). The film was revolutionary at the time mostly because of Eisenstein's theory of montage and film editing, still studied today in film universities around the world along with D.W. Griffith's films. Personally, I find these films boring, but one cannot deny their influence on modern cinema.
 
I love HCB's work. His work is a lot more than pretty compositions (I don't think there is anything here on RFF that compares to his best). He had an incredible quickness of eye and spirit to be able to capture moments that speak so eloquently of the human condition. His art was rigorous and and restrained and betrays a beautiful depth of thinking and humor. He considered himself a surrealist. It's part of photographic history and was tremendously influential. If only our work could matter so much. It's a little bazaar to compare Lascaux to Picasso in the history of photography...but Winogrand definitely emerges from the HCB tradition. I'll bet you Winogrand would not speak ill of his work.

However, Nick, your question is moot. Art history has judged HCB and he has been anointed. There's no need to explain it or justify it. History has deemed his work significant and worthy, and it will continue to no matter what you say here.
 
My reading of this thread coincided with the arrival of The Man, the Image and the World a retrospective on HCB’s work. I hadn’t even opened it when I started reading this stuff and I began to wonder if I was in for a disappointment of perhaps my absorbing of hype would see me through. The only real picture I could remember was the jumping pool image which I’d always thought was stunning. The discussion increased my anticipation a fair amount so thanks for that.

So last night I finally thumbed through the images and for me the hits are exceptional and the misses not so bad. It seems to me he was that and then some. It surprising that it should be a question. After thumbing through the whole book, with some of he images I felt I could feel him thinking (not explained that too well). The humour and playfulness he gets across just by clicking the shutter at the right time means for me he doesn’t have too many equals.
 
Nh3 said:
Its ironic that the definitive "decisive moment" photo is cropped!
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Where's the irony? The "decisive moment" and cropping concern different dimensions. First, the dimension of time, second, the dimension of space.
 
mike kim said:
The scene in The Untouchables (1987) is a homage to The Battleship Potemkin (1925). The film was revolutionary at the time mostly because of Eisenstein's theory of montage and film editing, still studied today in film universities around the world along with D.W. Griffith's films. Personally, I find these films boring, but one cannot deny their influence on modern cinema.
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OK, guess I should've placed a smiley there. Just was sarcastic to HCB-is-overrated consensus here, you know :)
 
Rogrund said:
Where's the irony? The "decisive moment" and cropping concern different dimensions. First, the dimension of time, second, the dimension of space.
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Where is this written? Have you passed a degree in "decisive moments"? How do you know?

Or could it be something that is left to your own imagination, desire, wishful thinking.....
 
chikne said:
Where is this written? Have you passed a degree in "decisive moments"? How do you know?

Or could it be something that is left to your own imagination, desire, wishful thinking.....
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Just common sense. I didn't mean to upset you, I'm sorry. :eek:

BTW, "a degree in decisive moments", that was kind of funny. I've had quite a lot of them in my life, so maybe you could say I have passed a degree! :D
 
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