Paddy C
Unused film collector
SSP is universally despised from what I've read. At this point (both in the history of computers and software and given the length of time Sigma has had with the sensors etc.) software so bad is inexcusable.
I've always been curious about these cameras but I agree with LL that life is far too short to be wasting time with crappy software. I just can't do it.
I've always been curious about these cameras but I agree with LL that life is far too short to be wasting time with crappy software. I just can't do it.
YYV_146
Well-known
I totally agree. Was blown away by the DP2M. SPP is a huge flaming wreck.
In my line of work I've had the misfortune to use all sorts of awful software (ESRI, JMP, Matlab in its earlier form) but nothing compares to the sheer displeasure of using SPP. If I need 40 minutes to work on a file in Photoshop, I'd guess the SPP equivalent is probably 10-15 hours.
GaryLH
Veteran
Just use spp as a raw to tiff16 process and run everything thru batch processing. Take those tiffs into your favorite photo sw. Outside of batch processing (Merrill or Quattro), I only use the spp raw sw to edit problem shots.
Unlike the Merrill jpg engine (a dog), the new one on the Quattro is good enough that even pixel peeping it is hard to tell which is better until u get up into iso values greater than 800..ymmv
On the Quattro, I am perfectly happy just using the extracted jpg which is a FINE.. Not so on the Merrill.
Sigma is basically a hw company. I have seen so many times in the past in my industry.....unless hw start up gets lucky and find the right sw people to work on their fw, it is a flaming wreck.. The same can be said about spp, I don't think they ever found the right sw people or plm (product line managers) that could c the whole picture.
Gary
Unlike the Merrill jpg engine (a dog), the new one on the Quattro is good enough that even pixel peeping it is hard to tell which is better until u get up into iso values greater than 800..ymmv
On the Quattro, I am perfectly happy just using the extracted jpg which is a FINE.. Not so on the Merrill.
Sigma is basically a hw company. I have seen so many times in the past in my industry.....unless hw start up gets lucky and find the right sw people to work on their fw, it is a flaming wreck.. The same can be said about spp, I don't think they ever found the right sw people or plm (product line managers) that could c the whole picture.
Gary
YYV_146
Well-known
The tiff files are absolutely huge
But then again none of Sigmas can be machine-gunned...guess the problems solves itself. I just don't get it, in this age of abundant coding talent, why can't a company as prestigious as Sigma put together a functioning software team? SPP is literally every bit as bad as a 15-year old copy of Photoshop, maybe even worse because said copy runs smoothly when you put modern hardware behind it.
Kwesi
Well-known
You might be right regarding adobe, but they are the gold standard for user interface, workflow and processing speed. I have a feeling both sigma and fuji have at least as much money as Adobe. We need to hold them both to a higher standard.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Err ... sorry I like it
Sure its slow but it has everything I need ....... I`ll get my coat then .
burancap
Veteran
Err ... sorry I like it
Sure its slow but it has everything I need ....... I`ll get my coat then .
Right behind you. I never really had a problem with SPP.
And, as Gary said in #23, export to .tif and go on your way if you prefer.
tsiklonaut
Well-known
Ironically, it's that LL's "review" that currently get's me thinking I should get one
Ditto on SPP - never had a problem and I actually LIKE working with SPP, export it into 16bit TIF and go from there. One has to admit that sometimes the specialized things just outweight the generic things such as Adobe RAW converter etc.
Ditto on SPP - never had a problem and I actually LIKE working with SPP, export it into 16bit TIF and go from there. One has to admit that sometimes the specialized things just outweight the generic things such as Adobe RAW converter etc.
Spanik
Well-known
I totally agree. Was blown away by the DP2M. SPP is a huge flaming wreck.
In my line of work I've had the misfortune to use all sorts of awful software (ESRI, JMP, Matlab in its earlier form) but nothing compares to the sheer displeasure of using SPP. If I need 40 minutes to work on a file in Photoshop, I'd guess the SPP equivalent is probably 10-15 hours.
Never had to work with DB2 or Lotus Notes then? I'll take SPP any time over those 2.
And yep, got a DP1m and DP2m so I have used SPP. I admit it isn't brilliant and could probably be faster. Don't unserstand if I open a folder with say 4GB of files why they couldn't load them all in the memory provided. Being still 32-bit got something to do with it of course. But again compared to medium format and scanning it isn't that bad.
GaryLH
Veteran
The tiff files are absolutely huge
I just don't get it, in this age of abundant coding talent, why can't a company as prestigious as Sigma put together a functioning software team? SPP is literally every bit as bad as a 15-year old copy of Photoshop, maybe even worse because said copy runs smoothly when you put modern hardware behind it.
If your existing talent is only so-so and the boss doesn't realize it..or is not willing to make the change (replace those sw people), u exist in a limbo.
Or is not willing to invest the money required for a rethink of the design. For example a raw plugin or a version that is setup to batch run raws thru apple automater or any generic script via cmd line inputs.
It really is really a hw centric company. Same w/ Fuji. There are things that Fuji does in their fw, that current embedded sw practices really doesn't do anymore.
As I think about it.. I suspect the sigma sw team maybe so small that they are doing double duty..embedded sw (the fw) and spp. It is rare u c guys that are really good at embedded sw do well w/ spp like application programming or vice versa.
Gary
digi2ap
Newbie
Have been browsing this thread and had to add my vote for SPP - I like it too. I use the last version of SPP5 with the Merrill cameras and aside from my liking the interface for X3F conversion it is also pretty fast and very rarely crashes. However, I remember when the DP1M first came out, SPP was all over the place then and it took quite a few re-releases to sort.
YYV_146
Well-known
I'm no programmer, and managing the actual database is usually another man's job.
But the hardware I use is seriously overpowered for graphics, and I have become used to juggling a dozen full-size files in PS with infinite step records (>500) - SPP is just such a huge step back. Reminds me of the days I started working with digital files on a 486...
GaryLH
Veteran
I suspect it is due to the size of the full size fine jpg they embeded in the raw file plus being only 32 bit sw. They need to render thumbnails from them. To make things faster, I told the spp browser to only worry about raw files..since most of my shooting these days is in small raw w/ occasional large raw (24mb vs 56mb average raw file)..it goes pretty quick.. Any jpg or tiff16 file is then ignored by the file browser.
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Ironically, it's that LL's "review" that currently get's me thinking I should get one
Ditto on SPP - never had a problem and I actually LIKE working with SPP, export it into 16bit TIF and go from there. One has to admit that sometimes the specialized things just outweight the generic things such as Adobe RAW converter etc.
Compared to 6.01 version of spp.. The current 6.06 is much more stable. I hear October (rumor) is when they are targetting to release the version 6.1. Currently, spp 6 is more about Quattro.
Gary
Samouraï
Well-known
I'm completely surprised that the 'focus' button doesn't activate the autofocus (as I never have af set to half-shutter on my other cameras). The way the af lock functions on my Merrill cameras is my biggest gripe. The Quattro doesn't seem to offer any improvement, unfortunately. I'm so torn about this camera. The DP2M and DP3M are still punching above their weight for me, so...
thegman
Veteran
I'll give you Lotus Notes, but won't hear ill words spoken of DB2.
I didn't mind SPP though, but I'm not a big one for post processing, maybe if I was, I'd dislike it more.
GaryLH
Veteran
Unless u can make use of the higher iso or faster af.. I would not worry about it.
As I said in other post, I find I actually like shooting in small raw much better and I never make prints bigger than 11x19 anyway. More like 8x10..
The mid and small raws from the Merrill don't look as good as what I am getting on the Quattro. The Merrill to he is a large raw to tiff 16 only evironment. The Quattro is already a very capable camera for my use as a small raw to jpg or tiff16 camera.
Gary
jarski
Veteran
regarding SPP, I used Sigma camera for past year or so. can understand LL harsh comments about it, my feelings were similar when first started using it. also agree its inexcusable that state of this software stays like it is, year after year, while same company is providing new cameras with their Foveon sensor (on my scale, much more complex task than making a software for PC or Mac).
but, after initial shock with SPP, just started using it. with its -90's look and feel, its kinda interesting blast from the past once learned is quirks, its pretty effortless extra step, in workflow with Sigma raw files.
but, after initial shock with SPP, just started using it. with its -90's look and feel, its kinda interesting blast from the past
once learned is quirks, its pretty effortless extra step, in workflow with Sigma raw files.
Samouraï
Well-known
It's not a matter of af speed, it's more a matter of getting the lens set to a distance and then being able to snap off a bunch of shots without having to re-focus/have fear of losing your af-lock (the af-lock doesn't work very well on the Merrill cameras). Ideally, the DP Foveon cameras would have a manual focus lens with hard stops and a distance scale.
GaryLH
Veteran
The pre-dp cameras had a dial on the top left corner than had a distance scale which was used in mf mode instead of on the lens if I remember correctly.
The AEL button on the Quattro can be changed to an af lock which is what I have done. It does not provide the Fuji style af lock where pressing it in mf will cause af focus and lock operation. Instead the sigma af lock is a two step approach.
- half press shutter to get af lock
- hit the af lock
now no matter how many times u press shutter, the focus point does not change. I use it for multi-frame stitch sometimes to create a wide angle lens effect.
Gary